Jesuit Pretrib Rapture

That’s right. The originators of the pretribulation rapture theory are none other than the Jesuits. And, I can’t say that I’m too terribly surprised.

With all of the lies and corruption that permeate the Jesuits, it should not surprise us that they would deliberately seek to corrupt any interpretation of the bible, if it means that the Roman Catholic Church is glorified – which is what they have sworn to do, at all costs. But, we’re getting ahead of ourselves.

The Jesuits, or Societas Iesu, was started when Ignatius of Loyola got six young men together and started their own monastic order in 1534. Pope Paul III put his stamp of approval on the whole idea six years later. They then went on to become one of the most vicious organizations ever devised by man. Heinrich Himmler, the founder and head of the German Gestapo, credits the Jesuits as being the model for his organization.

With such a powerful tool in the hands of the Pope, it is easy to see why the Pope would order the Jesuits to destroy the Protestant Reformation and all other forms of Christianity. The Jesuits took over the Office of the Inquisition. They penetrated and subverted every political institution in Europe, as well as any and all religious institutions. In fact, they became so successful, the monarchies of Europe pressured the Pope to disband them – which he did, in 1773. But, like a really bad case of cancer, they came roaring back.

And, they wrote books.

When the Protestant Reformation began, men like Luther and Knox claimed that it was the Catholic Church itself who was to be the Antichrist. This made the Pope nervous, and at the Council of Trent, the Pope commissioned the Jesuits to counteract this dangerous idea.

In the late 1500s, two Jesuits, Francisco Ribera and Roberto Bellarmino, came to the Pope’s rescue and created a new Roman Catholic doctrine called Futurism, or Jesuit Futurism. Basically, Jesuit Futurism just says that the Roman Catholic Church can’t possibly have anything to do with the Antichrist. Of course, they wrote it in Latin, which kept it from being a ‘best seller’.

Along comes Chilean-born Manuel Lacunza, a Jesuit priest who found himself with too much time on his hands, because he’d been defrocked. (Remember that part about the Pope disbanding the Jesuits in 1773?) Lacunza built on the ideas of Ribera and Bellarmino by adding that all the good Christians (i.e., Catholics) would be resurrected BEFORE the Antichrist. However, he said that after this ‘rapture’, the Roman Catholic Church would side with the Antichrist.

The Pope liked it, except for the last bit, so he banned it.

Undeterred, Lacunza chose to write in Spanish and publish under the name Rabbi Juan Josafat ben-Ezra. Of course, someone else could have chosen that name, since the book came out in 1811, ten years after he died. Whatever the case, the book gained popularity throughout Spain and eventually wound up in the hands of a Scottish Presbyterian, Edward Irving.

For Irving, it was love at first cite. In fact, he was so taken with the book that he promptly took up the study of Castilian Spanish so that he could translate the book into English. His translation was published in 1827 as “The Coming of the Messiah”. The name ‘Edward Irving’ might sound familiar because he is one of the fore-runners of the Charismatic and Pentecostal movements.

The famous Margaret MacDonald, whose vision(s) created a massive sensation throughout Scotland and Great Britain in 1830, was a member of Irving’s congregation.

Also in 1830, it appears that Irving started preaching that the Rapture will occur in two stages – a secret one before the Antichrist and a public one at the end of the Great Tribulation. The question of which came first, Maragret MacDonald’s vision or Irving’s teaching, gets a little more difficult to figure out.

John Nelson Darby, was 30 when news of what was going on hit the headlines. He did his own investigation into the matter and incorporated what he saw into something called Dispensationalism. He also made his own translation of the bible which some say is deliberately biased towards his Dispensationalist views and the theory of the pretribulation rapture.

Darby visited the US six times between 1859 and 1874, preaching Dispensationalism and the pretribulation rapture. He also spent much time preaching in Europe, developing a reputation as an interpreter of bible prophecy.

All this and more, impressed the man that would be the biggest promoter of the Secret Rapture: Cyrus Ingerson Scofield. Scofield, a Kansas lawyer, published the first edition of his famous Scofield Reference Bible in 1909. By 1930, more than one million copies of his Bible were in print.

At this point, it was all over. Literally.

By placing his commentary of the Bible within the Bible itself, he essentially elevated his own thoughts on the Bible to be almost as important as the Bible itself. Whether this was intentional, or not, is immaterial. The fact is that his errors instantaneously became legitimate in the eyes of everyone who read his bible.

With the advent of the Scofield Bible, seminaries became major proponents of the Jesuit Pretribulation Rapture theory.

So, now that you know the shaky foundations of this theory, why not take a moment and look at the Bible itself.

Try to find ANY reference to a ‘Secret Rapture’ in the Bible. You cannot.

Try to find ANY reference in the Bible to a Rapture before Jesus returns. You cannot.

Read Matthew 24. Is there anyone who can explain this chapter in any other way than that the Rapture will occur at the SAME TIME that Jesus returns?

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Can the explanation be any clearer?

Read II Thessalonians 2. Can you explain this away also?

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Read down through the rest of the chapter. Beware that you do not fall into the category of ‘them that perish’:

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Seriously folks. You must wake up. Stop believing in this Pretribulation Rapture lie and start preparing for what’s coming.

It may already be too late.

46 thoughts on “Jesuit Pretrib Rapture”

  1. [Hi Omega…Saw this web piece recently. Re Jesuits, you might like to Google “Catholics did NOT invent the rapture” which needs your response to it. Blessings.]

    Morgan Edwards’ Rapture View

    by George Wilson

    In 1995, in a 24-page booklet on 18th century pastor Morgan Edwards, evangelist John Bray claimed that Edwards taught a pretrib rapture in his 1788 book titled “Two Academical Exercises….”
    Those echoing Bray include Thomas Ice who wrote “Morgan Edwards: Another Pre-Darby Rapturist.” Edwards’ 1788 work can be found on the internet.
    In order to claim that Edwards held to pretrib, candidates for the I-can-find-pretrib-earlier-in-church-history-than-you-can medal – including Bray, Ice, LaHaye, Frank Marotta etc. – have intentionally covered up Edwards’ “historicism,” his belief that the tribulation had already been going on for hundreds of years. (How can anyone in the tribulation go back in time and look for a pretrib rapture?)
    Here’s proof of Edwards’ historicism and its companion “day-year” theory which can view the 1260 tribulation “days” as “years.”
    On p. 14 Edwards described the Ottoman Empire (which was then already 400 years old) as the Rev. 13:11 “beast.” On p. 20 he defined “Antichrist” as the already 1000-year-old “popery” and the “succession of persons” known as “Popes” – his other Rev. 13 “beast.” He necessarily viewed Rev. 13’s 1260-day period as 1260 literal years in order to provide enough time for his two “beasts.”
    On p. 19, while discussing “the ministry of the witnesses” of Rev. 11, he allotted “about 204 years” for their “years to perform” – years impossible to fit into a 3.5-year period!
    What about Edwards’ rapture? On pp. 21-23 he wrote about “the appearing of the son of man in the clouds, coming to raise the dead saints and change the living, and to catch them up to himself….The signs of Christ’s appearing in the clouds will be extraordinary ‘wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famines,’ &. (Matth. xxiv. 6-8.)….The signs of his coming, in the heavens will be ‘the trump of God [I Thess. 4:16], vapor and smoke, which will darken the sun and moon [Matt. 24:29],’…and also cause those meteors called ‘falling stars’….
    Right after his combined rapture/advent (!), Edwards said: “And therefore, now, Antichrist…will…counterfeit the preceding wonders in heaven…causing ‘fire to come down from heaven’….And that godhead he will now assume, after killing the two witnesses….Now the great persecution of the Jews will begin…for time, times, and half a time….”
    Thomas Ice’s article on Edwards (listed at start) quoted only the first 27 words in the above quotation which end with “to himself” – and you can see why pretrib defender Ice stopped quoting there! (For an Ice-covered piece, Google “Pretrib Rapture Pride.”)
    Not only had most of Edwards’ historicist tribulation occurred before his combined rapture/advent, but incredibly his Antichrist kept raging for 3.5 years even after the Matt. 24 signs! No wonder his tutor advised him to correct his thesis!
    To read Edwards’ complete work, Google “[PDF] Two Academical Exercises…”
    For more info on Edwards, Google “McPherson Page (” Also Google “Deceiving and Being Deceived” by historian Dave MacPherson.

  2. All you have to do is read Matthew ch:13 vs: 24-31 The parable of the wheat and the tares. Then read Matthew ch: 13 vs: 37-43 where Jesus explains the parable to the apostles. Gather ye first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat unto my barn. “first” the tares – that pretty much sums it up without any doubt.

    • AMEN TC!

      You have gotten the right idea.

      Here’s another one:

      For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17


      You CANNOT get around that one.

      TC, that was an awesome point!

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

    • Hey Nathan,

      The only way that you can make apostasia into ‘the rapture’ is if you REALLY want it that way. The Geneva Bible may have translated it that way because they meant ‘departing from the faith’.

      Here’s an example of the use of apostasia:

      And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. – Act 21:21

      The word forsake (above) is apostasia.

      Are you saying that the above verse ALSO refers to the rapture?

      The only way that you can make 2 Thessalonians 2:3 describe the Rapture is if you WANT to believe it that way. Anyone who thinks like this has forsaken the love of the truth, and there is something that happens when you do that:

      And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

      I find it ironic that this passage should appear in the same chapter as the verse that so many twist to make into the rapture.

      Do not be beguiled by this. Prepare for what is coming.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • Thanks for the reply. I know it is an older post and all.

        No one is saying that the word apostasia = rapture. What they are saying is that apostasia=departure. Departure does have more than one usage. You can depart physically from a location or depart from a belief in something. Both are legitimate uses of the word. They also point out that the verb form is also used elsewhere in the NT 15 times with only three referring to actual departure from faith with the rest referring to removing oneself from something.

        Changing the translation from “departure” to and transliteration of apostasia is in itself imposing a particular meaning on a word that is not there in the original. The same arguments that you use against it can equally be used against your interpretation.

        My biggest issue is that I really want the truth whether or not there is a pre-trib rapture or not, and so far I find the pre-trib arguments FROM THE BIBLE to be more convincing the the post-trib arguments. It seems that most post-trib arguments seem often to go to the logical fallacy of Ad Hominem (Jesuits, Margaret MacDonald, Left-behind whatever) and don’t address the consistency with which RATIONAL pre-trib proponents defend their position biblically. (I know there are defenders out there from both sides that I tune out when they make specious arguments).

        And with regard to the 2 Thes 2:10-12 passage are you saying that people that hold to the sufficiency of the Christ, and are relying on him alone for their salvation are damned if they hold a pre-trib position?

        Anyways, You have a very good site here and I appreciate the work you are putting into it. I definitely agree that we must search for God’s truth with the bible as our “plumb line” in evaluating truth.

        God Bless You,


        • Hey Nathan,

          First of all, I am NOT saying that people who hold the pre-trib position are not saved. Not at ALL. I am also dismayed by the attitudes and errors that I find in the post-trib side. In the context of when the rapture happens, I am not worried about a person’s salvation. I am worried about their safety and their ability to serve the Lord in the midst of the bad times that are coming.

          I appreciate your desire to reason Biblically. It’s my great desire also. So, let me raise a point for your consideration.

          How do you explain 1 Thess 4:16-17?

          For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thess 4:16-17

          How can you have a pretribulation rapture, if the dead in Christ are to rise first?

          Are there TWO raptures?

          Nathan, it’s good to dialogue with you. It’s always a blessing to run into someone who approaches issues scripturally.

          Yours in Christ,

          John Little

        • I was thinking everything that you said and more. I feel exactly like what you said, about longing for the truth, and i don’t believe, whether you believe in the pre tribulation or post makes any difference, as long as your eyes are on the Lord.
          Our salvation is based on our belief in Christ and being right with Him.
          When the Word speaks of believing lies instead of the truth. That would be about turning away from the Lord and falling away. Turning to idols and perversions of the world.
          I don’t see that the Word is specific about the great falling away. I believe that it has to do with all kinds of different deceptions from the enemy in these last days. Let God be true and every man a liar.
          We need to pant after our Lord, as the deer panteth for the water, so our soul longeth after thee, for He alone is our hearts desire and we long to worship thee.

  3. Dear John

    Many arguments of the rapture (snatching away) exclude the most important theme of the discourse namely, The Day of the Lord. In Thessalonians and Revelation as well the gospels the context of the warnings given to the church is The Day of the Lord. All arguments become non-essential when The Day of the Lord is not the starting point.
    In Thessalonians they were worried that the Day of the Lord had already come and God had Paul re-assure the Day did not yet come and was only to come when certain conditions were met. That is the context. Now, it is crucial to understand the Day of the Lord and this is where many pre-trib rapture Adventists err. They erroneously associate the Day of the Lord with the tribulation. The Great Tribulation is not and again I stress not the Day of the Lord.
    John I can e-mail you the study on the Day of the Lord vs The Great Tribulation.
    Yours in Christ Jesus. Barland

    • Hi Barland Johnson,

      Actually, I agree. The ‘Day of the Lord’ is NOT the Tribulation. Having said that, ‘The Day of the Lord’ is used very broadly in the Bible, so I’m reluctant to be dogmatic. Although, it is very clear that Paul was speaking of the rapture in Thessalonians, when he mentioned ‘The Day of the Lord’.

      Great comment, Barland. Thank you.

      Yours in Christ

      John Little

    • Hi Karl,

      Excellent recommendation, and I saw some good stuff there. However, when I looked deeper into his site… it’s very anti-Israel, which means that he is against Ezekiel 36 and 37 – and all the many prophecies that speak of the return of Israel to her land.

      To stand against the prophecies of God is to stand against God, Himself. That is a very, very dangerous thing.

      Thank you for that suggestion, Karl.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  4. Hi Folks , most interesting topic isn’t it ? I’d just like to add to > Thessalonians 4:16 the missing link how it will be possible , explained in Corinthians 15 :51 . Looks to me that if you’re saved through Lord Jesus, repent your sins , you’ll become part of His ” Body of Christ or his Bride ” ,,,, the true and only religion. And then the Wedding !!! Therefore , rejoice , your sins forgiven through Jesus blood ( He died for our sins ) and so those “need NOT” to go through Great Tribulation or ” White Throne Judgment ” Revelation 3:10 ……………. but to those who mock Jesus , kill His people , ruining the world , look out , He knows where you live . Revelation 2:9 + 3:9 Seek Jesus while He can be found , God bless you all

    • Hi Milan Danek,

      As God preserved the Children of Israel in the Land of Goshen – during the 10 plagues – God can and will preserve His people (at least those who were wise and prepared).

      I am unsure what you mean when you say ‘and so those need NOT to go through the Great Tribulation’. What exactly do you mean by this?

      Thank you for your comment, Milan.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  5. Thank you for this much needed history. I’ve already known the Catholics came up with this doctrine and it spread via the charismatic movement. I spent an entire year searching the scriptures for a pretrib rapture but found no sure footing for that view. If anyone can clearly show me a pretrib view from scripture I’ll gladly reconsider it, but so far no one has. Whenever you hear the topic within a discussion or from the pulpit it is always referenced by “I believe” instead of scripture. The NASB says “at the last trumpet” which immediately puts me in mind of the 7 trumpets in Revelation. It seems the event takes place at the 7th trumpet. If this is so, the other six trumpets are cause for preparation. What would you say to this? Again, it was good to hear what actually makes sense.

    • Hi Cindy Fantin,

      It’s good to see someone else who is thinking clearly. I took a while for me to understand why anyone would follow such Jesuit foolishness.

      The reason why people believe in a pretrib rapture is because they want to. The future on this Earth is just so much nicer with that view.

      Now to your question about the trumpets. It could be, but just because a trumpet is mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52, does not mean that this is the seventh trumpet. However, we DO know that the dead are raise BEFORE those of us that are still alive (1 Thess 4:15-17). And yup, there’s a trumpet in verse 16.

      But, let me end by saying this: There is a real finality when the seventh angel sounds in Rev. 10 and 11. That sounds an awful lot like ‘The Last Trump’. But, I cannot be dogmatic about it because the Bible does NOT say that the seventh trumpet is that Last Trump.

      Thank you for that great comment, Cindy!

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  6. Hi John, your blog is terrific.

    Now, the Bible is full of rapture-types. And even if it was not the case, it is a very bad position to be not to have faith in the power of God to deliver the righteous. It is ok to expect the Lord to tarry but, “if” the rapture doctrine was correct, would He take those who do not expect/want him to come?

    There will be christians during the trib. Read about their fate. When being in front of the sea and having an army behind, will we start to put our swim suits?

    Obedience to his word is key, and I depend on his grace to endure whatever comes, but I also expect and have faith in Him doing something great. You know why? because YHWH is salvation.

    With love in Christ,


  7. Imminent return is the key. God wanted us Believers to be ready at any moment to meet Him, and to live like that. Not to be waiting for the Antichrist. The people you are talking about are the people who have been left behind friend.

    • Hi jAY,

      I wish that I could agree with you, and I wish that I could make the Bible to agree with you too. But, I can’t.

      Twisting the scriptures to make them say what you want them to say won’t prepare you for what is coming.

      And, we prepare for the purpose of being able to continue the work that God has laid out for us. You must prepare for what’s coming because you have a job to do.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  8. Hi John…
    If one believes that “apostacia” translates to “catching away” rather than “falling away” (backsliding) in II Thessalonians 2:3, then he is confronted with a major problem when taking all of the first three verses together. This results in a convoluted teaching that says, in essence, before our gathering together unto the Lord (the rapture), there has to be a rapture. That makes no sense at all.
    Sir, I respectfully disagree with you when you say that “Pre-tribbers” are sweeter-spirited than “Post-tribbers”. That has definitely NOT been my experience. I find the proponents of the pre-trib theory to be hard-headed, dogmatic, and not at all interested in the truth of God’s Word. I get so tired of hearing them say “God would never let his bride suffer tribulation.” To stand for truth doesn’t necessarily equate to a person being mean-spirited.
    Any man truly seeking the truth should be able to find it. In Revelation 20:4-6 we are told that there are only two resurrections of the dead, and the first one includes those who died resisting the mark of the beast. The second is at the end of the l000 year reign of Christ. That plainly shows the first resurrection, which happens before the translation of living saints (I Thessalonians 4:17), to be after the 3 1/2 year tribulation. That fact will not wiggle.
    Of course all this is moot if one hasn’t been born again, i.e. if he hasn’t obeyed the words of Peter in Acts 2:38…”Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
    So much for the catholic doctrine of the trinity as well as the pre-trib rapture theory.
    One further comment if I may. If the mother of harlots of Revelation 17 refers to the catholic church, then the pope is not the anti-Christ. Verse 16 says that the beast (a/c) “…shall hate the whore , and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.”
    Have a blessed day.

    • Hi john varner,

      Excellent comments. Excellent. My point about pre-trib people is that they had a better spirit about everything else, except eschatology. Even then, they’re just hard-headed and stubborn, which I am guilty of myself.

      However, the main point still stands. You can ignore the truth, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring the truth.

      God bless you, John.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  9. / Blessings John. Saw this on the net. One of the links at the end (Pretrib Rapture Stealth) has some shocking scriptural argumentation. /

    Pretrib Rapture Pride

    Pretrib rapture promoters like Thomas Ice give the impression they know more than the early Church Fathers, the Reformers, the greatest Greek New Testament scholars including those who produced the KJV Bible, the founders of their favorite Bible schools, and even their own mentors!
    Ice’s mentor, Dallas Sem. president John Walvoord, couldn’t find anyone holding to pretrib before 1830 – and Walvoord called John Darby and his Brethren followers “the early pretribulationists” (RQ, pp. 160-62). Ice belittles Walvoord and claims that several pre-1830 persons, including “Pseudo-Ephraem” and a “Rev. Morgan Edwards,” taught a pretrib rapture. Even though the first one viewed Antichrist’s arrival as the only “imminent” event, Ice (and Grant Jeffrey) audaciously claim he expected an “imminent” pretrib rapture! And Ice (and John Bray) have covered up Edwards’ historicism which made a pretrib rapture impossible! Google “Morgan Edwards’ Rapture View” and journalist/historian Dave MacPherson’s “Deceiving and Being Deceived” for documentation on these and similar historical distortions.
    The same pretrib defenders, when combing ancient books, deviously read “pretrib” into phrases like “before Armageddon,” “before the final conflagration,” and “escape all these things”!
    BTW, the KJV translators’ other writings found in London’s famed British Library (where MacPherson has researched) don’t have even a hint of pretrib rapturism. Is it possible that Ice etc. have found pretrib “proof” in the KJV that its translators never found?
    Pretrib merchandisers like Ice claim that nothing is better pretrib proof than Rev. 3:10. They also cover up “Famous Rapture Watchers” (on Google) which shows how the greatest Greek NT scholars of all time interpreted it.
    Pretrib didn’t flourish in America much before the 1909 Scofield Bible which has pretribby “explanatory notes” in its margins. Not seen in the margins was jailed forger Scofield’s criminal record throughout his life that David Lutzweiler has documented in his recent book “The Praise of Folly” which is available online.
    Biola University’s doctrinal statement says Christ’s return is “premillennial” and “before the Tribulation.” Although universities stand for “academic freedom,” Biola has added these narrow, restrictive phrases – non-essentials the founders purposely didn’t include in their original doctrinal statement when Biola was just a small Bible institute! And other Christian schools have also belittled their founders.
    Ice, BTW, has a “Ph.D” issued by a tiny Texas school that wasn’t authorized to issue degrees! Ice now says that he’s working on another “Ph.D” via the University of Wales in Britain. For light on the degrees of Ice’s scholarliness, Google “Bogus degree scandal prompts calls to wind up University of Wales,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “be careful in polemics – Peripatetic Learning,” and “Walvoord Melts Ice.” Also Google “Thomas Ice (Hired Gun)” – featured by media luminary Joe Ortiz on his Jan. 30, 2013 “End Times Passover” blog.
    Other fascinating Google articles include “The Unoriginal John Darby,” “X-raying Margaret,” “Margaret Macdonald’s Rapture Chart,” “Pretrib Rapture’s Missing Lines,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Pretrib Rapture Stealth,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Open Letter to Todd Strandberg,” and “Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism” – most from the author of “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate documentation on pretrib rapture history) which can be obtained by calling 800.643.4645.
    Can anyone guess who the last proud pretrib rapture holdout will be?
    (Postscript: For another jolt or two Google “The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up.”)

  10. To me the two main proofs that pre-trib is not Scriptural are; first, the Parable of the Wheat and Tares. This, as stated earlier, is impossible to ignore. Second, there is a little more to the “last trumpet” point.

    It must, by reason of its emphasis in reference in accounts of this event, be rated among one of the most, if not THE most important trumpet calls this side of eternity. That leads me to believe that, if it is not the seventh trumpet call sounded in Rev 11:15, it must be one that comes later and is only mentioned in references to our leaving at His second, and only, coming.

    Grace and Peace,

  11. I just re-read the Revelation 11 passage, and I am prepared to be totally dogmatic in saying that the 7th trump is the last trump. I know you don’t wish to sound as certain as I am being, inasmuch as you stated the following in a response to a reader:

    “But, let me end by saying this: There is a real finality when the seventh angel sounds in Rev. 10 and 11. That sounds an awful lot like ‘The Last Trump’. But, I cannot be dogmatic about it because the Bible does NOT say that the seventh trumpet is that Last Trump.”

    The thing is, I am content to take my Lord at His word. Rev. 11 depicts the two witnesses prophesying for 42 months and causing all manner of plagues to come upon the earth. (I find this completely similar to Moses and Aaron during the plagues of Exodus, and I have written a detailed comparison of the Exodus events to the Revelation events.)

    At the end of the 42 months (approx. 3 1/2 years), the two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem, their dead bodies remain in the streets for 3 1/2 days as all the world rejoices that the Beast has overcome these men of God.

    Inasmuch as Jesus’ kingdom is now on earth (at the 7th trump), I’d say there is no way that another “last trump” remains. When Jesus returns and makes the earth His throne, the only time which remains is the 1,000 year reign of Christ; then all time will be abolished and we will be in eternity, which is not marked by time. When Paul speaks of a “last trump,” (at which time the dead in Christ rise, then we who are alive and remain to be with the Lord forever,) he means the LAST trump. For if we are ever with the Lord Jesus after that last trumpet sound, then we know we are at the end of earthly time. There is no more final and important trump than the last trumpet call to round up God’s elect both living and dead, to join with Jesus in the clouds and come to earth to reign forevermore with Jesus.

    I am reminded that there is a sure statement made regarding the 7th trump which helps solidify the only logical conclusion, that the 7th is the last trump.

    I believe this statement, which the Angel swore by God was true, makes it patently clear that the 7th trumpet sound marks the end. From reading Rev. 11 in its entirety, and following it closely, I do not doubt that the last events to transpire before Jesus returns are the 42 months of the two witnesses preaching, their martyrdom, their resurrection and subsequent ascension into the clouds. That marks the end of the 2nd of the “three woes,” then the 7th trumpet sounds and Jesus returns to gather His elect from the four winds of heaven and reward His servants, and to put an end to the Anti-Christ’s reign of terror and destruction of the earth.

    Daniel 12 presents perfect parallel to what I’ve pointed to in the above referenced Revelation passages. I imagine you are familiar with Daniel 12.

    In Daniel 12:7, an emissary of God (perhaps Jesus himself-the man clothed in linen) swears by God, to Daniel, that 3 1/2 years (1,290 days specifically) will transpire after the Abomination of Desolation is set up, and then the END will come. Two times in the Bible (that I can remember), one in Daniel and one in Revelation, where an angel/or spokesman for God, swears (promises an oath) to a human and in both cases it is in reference to an exact timeline of what is to come in the end. I find this incredibly important, and not to be neglected. My Lord desires that truth be known to His servants. Jesus is not in the business of obfuscation. He tells us these things beforehand so that we will know and be comforted, and so that we will not lose heart or lose faith.

    I don’t claim to know all things as pertains to the end, but I will let the plain things speak for themselves, and I will not pretend that what is clear is somehow unclear. I do not know whether I will be able to witness first hand all that is coming upon the earth, for my life is in Jesus’ hands, as it should be. But I love that my Lord knows and speaks the truth, and that He spells it out so clearly that those who have in them a love of the truth will not be able to be turned to delusions in this time of great deception.

    Thank you again for your ministry, and for your willingness to let the Word speak. Thank you even more for spurring me on to read these passages again.
    In Christ Jesus,

    • Hi farmgirl,

      Those are excellent arguments. Just remember that Paul does not explicitly connect the words ‘last trump’ with John’s vision. After all, John’s vision came LONG after Paul’s letter to the Corinthians.

      But, I appreciate the points.

      Thank you, FG!

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  12. In 1983, after I had experienced an open vision of the End of Days, and of being caught up, Jesus told me not to be concerned about when, just rest assured that in the fullness of time, that it would happen. He also asked me at that time if I would go through the Tribulation with Him – “Of course, at your saying.” He said, “Good, this is how it must be.” It was years later I caught up with the rapture doctrine being apostasy. I asked Jesus to define apostasy, He said that it is simply having (preferring) your own opinion to having the Mind of Christ.

    This may interest you John. In the Ancient Aramaic Scriptures, Jesus (Eashoa) is recorded to have said, “I Am the Alap and the Tau, the Head and the Consummation, the beginning and the end. The letter Alap is also One, Ox and beginning. Tau is the 22nd letter of the Aramaic alphabet (Omega is the 16th), and means Mark and is shown as a Cross or T. He is the MARK of our high calling, as distinct from the “Mark” of the Beast.

    In koine Greek, which derives from Aramaic (like Hebrew and Arabic), the last letter is Omega, which means GREAT, and the first is Alpha, so it is”I Am the The First and The Great”, while in Aramaic it is “I Am the Ox and the Mark.” SO, He is both how we get there, and where we are heading, He is our inspiration, our motivation, our destination, and our consummation, even the author and the finisher of our salvation, and we ought not kick against the pricks.

    • Hi Lou Norman,

      It is true that the ‘pretribulation rapture’ written of by Lacunza is not like the pretrib lie of today. However, it is doubtful that Darby would have been able to formulate such a deception without the help of Lacunza, via Irving.

      Remember that Darby was listening to Irving, and would not have identified this as a Catholic idea.

      Furthermore, Lacunza’s book listed the author as Rabbi Juan Josaphat ben-Ezra, and NOT Lacunza. This would have further obscured the role of the Jesuits in originating this idea.

      Ultimately, none of that matters. What matters is what the Bible tells us.

      And, a pretribulation rapture cannot be found in the Bible, if you are being honest.

      Thank you, Lou.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  13. Am amazed how the Lord seems to be leading me to all these fabulous sites. It seems each time I find something I am not sure about in an interpretation and feel the need to find the truth….. He leads me to unusual websites, how else can I explain how I found you, thank goodness. A fellow speaking of the Pretrib. I then found someone who spoke about the Jesuit connection of the Pretrib. Then of course I had to find out more. Great to read all of the
    Contributions. I still believe in the view that there is only one, the dead in Christ. rise first,
    followed then by those who are still alive, believe in Him. Simple, its in the KJV. Bible. BH.


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