My Report on Nathan Leal

I do not recall ever being in such a visible conflict within the Body of Christ. I have engaged in this reluctantly, and I would not have engaged at all, were it not for the damage done to a brother in Christ.

Let me repeat that I have never been a follower of Nathan Leal. He’s a good man, but he hasn’t been in my area of operations. But, I just cannot sit by while a brother is attacked and abused unjustly.

Furthermore, I have found that there is a deeper corruption in this, and it must be exposed.

This is my report on that corruption, and more.


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My Report on Nathan Leal

In the more than four decades of my walk with Christ, I have seen a lot of sin and corruption in the Body of Christ. My heart aches, to even remember it.

I do not understand how ANYONE can take upon himself the mantle of ‘leader’ and sin against Christ. And, to my shame, I have often been slow in pointing out sin and corruption. Those that suffered because I was so slow… well …they weigh upon my conscience.

And yes, they truly do.

We Christians have a divinely ordained responsibility to protect those who have been abused. And, should a brother or sister suffer unjustly, we are doubly responsible to defend against that abuse. And worse, if that abuse comes at the hands of those who speak of themselves as Christian, then we must cast it out and shine the light of truth upon it.


I Am Horrified

We should ALL be horrified at the thought that we would unjustly abuse a brother or sister. I have participated in unjust abuse in the past, and I am appalled by my sins. I will never forget those sins, and those sins will always be a scar upon my soul, until the day that I die. That feeling of horror at my own sin is what has helped launch me into a defense of someone that I do not know very well.

I do not know Nathan Leal directly. I’ve heard him a few times on the Hagmann and Hagmann Report, and I might have listened to a couple of his online sermons. But really, that’s about it.

However, before these current events, the little that I did know about Nathan Leal was that he was a person of honesty, humility and integrity.

No one is perfect, so I’m sure that I can find flaws in Nathan, just as you can certainly find flaws in me. In fact, MY flaws are very easy to see.

But, were Nathan’s flaws worthy of being publicly excoriated for three hours, by two brothers in Christ?

Nathan Leal Attacked

That happened on January 7th. When I heard about it I was shocked. And, when I listened to that attack, my shock turned to grief. I knew that the two men attacking Nathan were engaged in false accusation. The fact that they did not give Nathan Leal‘s name meant nothing.

Everyone knew that the person that they were attacking was their brother in Christ, Nathan Leal.

I knew enough of Nathan Leal, to know that this attack was wrong. Furthermore, just a few days before, I had listened to an MP3 of Nathan laying out his reasons for doing what he did, so I had a clear understanding of HOW wrong Nathan’s attackers were. A terrible wound had been made in the Body of Christ, a wound that was wrong in every way.

It was an abomination, but I did not realize how deep it went.

Nathan’s attackers were David Lankford and Steve Quayle, on the Hagmann Report.

Here is that attack:

The Hagmann Report -1/7/16-Steve Quayle & David Lankford-Fear of the Lord is absent in the land

YouTube shortlink:

The Truth

After listening to that terrible attack, I went back to the MP3 made by Nathan Leal and listened to it again.

What could Nathan Leal have said to justify all that?

In fact, I was hoping to find evidence of wrongdoing on Nathan’s part. What I came up with was…


Here is Nathan’s MP3:

The interesting thing is that I don’t normally download an MP3. Normally, I just listen to it as I putter around on my computer. But, this time something made me download it. I am grateful to that ‘something’ because the MP3 disappeared from Nathan Leal‘s website.

I believe that Nathan took that MP3 down to deprive the controversy of oxygen.

Anyway, I had downloaded it. And, now that things have blown up, I have put that MP3 on my server. Here’s the link:

That MP3 was posted on December 30th, and Nathan recorded it to explain why he did what he did. He really lays out all the reasons for why. If Steve Quayle and David Lankford had listened to that MP3, they would not have attacked Nathan Leal like they had – just eight days later.

A Plea For Reconciliation

I consider David and Steve to be good brothers in Christ who have sacrificed much, in their love for God and their love for us. David Lankford is an evangelist with a profound love for God that echoes in every message that he preaches. And, Steve Quayle has been a tireless servant of the Body of Christ, reporting links – every day – for those of us who desperately need to know what is going on.

I have been blessed by David and Steve, and I am sick at heart to speak of the sin that they committed against our brother, Nathan Leal. And yes, what they did was a sin. Worse, their position of leadership makes their sin worse.

David and Steve,

I am appealing to you as your brother in Christ, that you repent of what you have done to your brother, Nathan Leal. I am asking you to communicate this repentance to Nathan and ask him to forgive you.

I am sure that he will.

Furthermore, you must make this repentance public, for all to hear and see.

My hope is that Nathan Leal will be welcomed back to the Hagmann Report soon, so that we can put this awful moment behind us. Doug and Joe are not without sin in this.

I am sure that David and Steve will feel like I have betrayed them by going public like this, but 1 Timothy 5:19-20 makes it clear that this is necessary. I will be talking more about that passage, later. My hope is that both of those men will remember this important verse:

Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

 – Proverbs 27:6

It is funny that the verse should end in that way, because I believe that this controversy centers upon two different men, who are enemies of the Body of Christ. I doubt that they see themselves as enemies, but I believe that their actions speak loudly about who and what they are.

I will leave the evidence to you, to decide whether I am right or not.

The two men in question are:

Ted Broer

Michael Scott Kerr

Ted Broer

After listening to the evidence provided by Nathan Leal, in the MP3 above, Ted Broer is clearly wrong in every way. Furthermore, his heresy is so great that I have doubt about whether he is a brother in Christ. His mixing of Pantheism with the truth of Christ, is an abomination.

In fact, readers have come to me with the damage that Ted Broer had done in their lives. One communicated with me the struggle to get away from New Age mysticism, only to be sucked back into it by Ted’s teachings.

Such heresy should never be tolerated in the Body of Christ. And, we must clearly and firmly repudiate it, and never stand with those who teach such idolatry.

Beyond what Nathan says in his MP3, I will not go further into what Ted has done. I have already laid out Ted’s sins in this area quite clearly, here:

Sin in the Church

And, to some extent, here:

Love of the Truth and Cognitive Dissonance

Once Nathan made the evidence clear, there was no doubt that Nathan was right in every way. Ted Broer is guilty of abominable heresy and of teaching that heresy. He must humbly confess his sins against Christ, in teaching such abomination. Ted must then repent and seek to undo the damage by preaching against such works of darkness at every opportunity.

Until Ted Broer does that, I will stand in doubt of his salvation.

Michael Scott Kerr

However, Michael Scott Kerr is an animal of a different stripe.

When the attack upon Nathan Leal came to my attention, I did not understand why that attack was taking place. It should have been clear to everyone that Nathan was in the right. So, I was perplexed by this attack by David Lankford and Steve Quayle. Later, I also found that Doug Hagmann was deeply distressed by Nathan’s resignation from ‘Hear The Watchmen’ conference, and it was even reported to me that Doug’s wife suffered a health problem because of this controversy.

There appears to be NOTHING in what Nathan Leal did, that would account for all of this upset. But, it was my lovely wife who first realized that there was something missing. Not long after her cogent observation, that ‘something’ chose to leave a comment on one of my articles. That comment gave me just enough evidence to begin to understand the darkness at the heart of this.

Three Mikes Did It To Himself

Allow me to be specific. On January 17, Michael Scott Kerr made the mistake of leaving a comment on my article, Sin in the Church. You can see the comment, here:

A light turned on when I saw that comment. That light burned more brightly when he responded to my response – as well as when a faithful brother provided me with information that I was missing. Furthermore, that information had only been provided, because of the comment made by Mike.

If Mike had not left his comment, I would STILL be in the dark. But, he couldn’t leave it alone. As is so commonly the case, we would not know of the guilt of the sinful, unless they had chosen to tell us.

In his own way, Mike is the author of this article. So, let me send a personal message to M. Scott Kerr:


You did it to yourself.

I’m just the messenger.

Once Mike was ‘outed’, many of you came forward with details that allowed me to research the twists and turns of Mike’s sordid trail of misdeeds.

By the way, Mike claims that his deceitful past has been forgiven by God and covered by the blood of Christ. The problem that I have with that statement, is that he’s used that excuse before – while engaging in other sins, just as bad as the ones that he claims were forgiven.

So, maybe I should offer another personal message:


God may have forgiven you, but you keep sinning against God.

When will you stop?

Why should we believe you?


It really pains me to see such hypocrisy. Mike claims to have been forgiven, but ‘like a dog returning to his vomit’ (2 Peter 2:22), Mike has returned to his sins. It pains me to see it.

Forgiveness Does Not Protect From Consequences

The other thing that everyone must remember is that the forgiveness of sin does not protect you from the consequences of sin. Examples of that are spread throughout the Bible.

David committed adultery and murder. God forgave him, but promised David that he would suffer the consequences of that sin for the rest of his life.

Adam was forgiven the sin of eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but humanity suffers the consequences of that to this very day.

The goodness of King Hezekiah and King Josiah did not keep Israel from experiencing the Babylonian Captivity.

If you ask God to forgive you of your sins, He will. And, you will not suffer for those sins in eternity. But, sin has consequences, and you will suffer the consequences of your sin. Sometimes, those consequences are short in duration. Sometimes those consequences will follow you for your whole life.

The interesting thing is that Mike accused Nathan Leal of bringing up Mike’s past sins, and I was left with the thought that this was done publicly. And, I suspect that this was exactly what Mike wanted us to think. But, I have seen no evidence that Nathan publicly – or, even privately – brought up the past sins of Mike Kerr. IF there was any criticism of Michael S Kerr from Nathan Leal, it was all done in private, and I haven’t seen it. In fact, we only have the word of Michael Scott Kerr that there is any sin on Nathan’s part, and I am deeply suspicious of Mike’s account.

When Elders Sin


…While Nathan MIGHT have done it privately…

…I am doing publicly.

Please understand that the sins of our leadership must be made public, always. Here is what the Bible says about that:

Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

 – 1 Timothy 5:19-20

Michael Scott Kerr has placed himself in a position of leadership in the Body of Christ, by presenting his conference Hear The Watchmen to us. Several of us are witness to Mike’s sins, and he requires our rebuke. May we all fear to be as Michael Scott Kerr.

By the way, part of my inspiration for the above verse, comes from a previous pastor that my wife and I love a great deal:


by James Brandon Durham

I am really missing Brandon’s leadership, right now. My wife and I are engaged in a spiritual battle here in Taiwan that is as dramatic as the one that I am describing in this article. The above post by James Brandon Durham applies to that battle, even more than the one with Mike Kerr. But, let’s get back to Mike.

Just what ARE Mike’s sins?

Dishonesty and slander

The accusation of slander is a little harder to prove, but dishonesty is easy. And, slander is just another version of dishonesty.

How do I know that Michael Scott Kerr is being dishonest?

Well, did you know that he operates under three different aliases?

Three Mikes

That’s why I call Michael Scott Kerr, ‘Three Mikes’. Here are the three aliases:

Mike Kerr

Mike Moore

Mike Whitestone

…oh, and ‘Brother Mike’

It took me a bit of research to verify that Mike Kerr really was his real name. In the process, I have learned far more about his personal life than I really want to know. But, the very fact of his use of aliases in his personal and professional life is prima facie evidence of dishonesty.

If you use an alias, you are being dishonest

There are times when it is not dishonest to use a pseudonym, especially when everyone expects you to use an alias – such as a ‘nom de plume’. I do not use a ‘writer name’, but it is possible that such a thing will be necessary in the future.

But, what Three Mikes is doing, is NOT honest and NOT acceptable.

Furthermore, there is only one reason why he would do such a thing:

Hiding a corrupt past

Allow me to show you that corrupt past.

Snowball Express – 2006

When Mike launched the ‘Snowball Express’ in 2006, his past crept up on him. He had arrest warrants out on him. He owed $50k in child support. He had lied on his resume. He’d been fired for dishonesty.

People were appalled by this, and that led to unwelcome media exposure. But, he said to the LA Times:

“I have not been a perfect man, but I asked for God’s forgiveness, and it has led to this effort.”

 – Organizer’s shady past casts pall on charity effort

(Also see: State is looking into O.C. charity)

Okay, so THAT is the part where he was forgiven by God and his sins were covered by the Blood of Christ. But, when he was confronted with his past sins, he lied:

Michael Scott Kerr Responds–Just Not to Us

He said:

“I went through a wicked divorce, I now pay my child support on time each and every month. There is no warrant it is old news. The issue with the former employer was a business issue and had nothing to do with my kids. We settled on the eight thousand dollar amount.”

More folo…

“The paper or the reporter never contacted me at all. I can post a statement but I really don’t think I need to. There have been lots of good positive stories but no one talks about those. As to sponsors no one has pulled out and more have come on board. I am not a bad guy, I am trying to help motivate the country to do the right thing. People learn from their mistakes and they can learn from mine. Much like we did concerning our mistakes about how we treated people like you and all our vets in the past.”

At the time of the above statement, the truth was really this:

1. The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Department’s website still lists an outstanding arrest warrant in Kerr’s name. We called the department verifying if the postings on this website are still valid; they say it’s updated every evening.

2. Kerr’s child support case on file with the State of Arizona shows he made his last payment in August of 2004. The total balance Kerr owes now exceeds $50,000.

3. The court docket for a case against Kerr filed by his former employer that he mentions specifically mentions child support as being part of the case (scroll to the bottom)

Yeah. I’m sorry. But lying about the past that you claim was forgiven tells me that you didn’t ask God for forgiveness. Or if you did, it wasn’t sincere.

DUI – 2007

Unfortunately, the sins did not stop there. There’s a LOT that came later. Here’s this one:

Snowballed into Jail

That was a DUI, and I’m afraid that I consider a DUI to be attempted murder. A friend of mine lost his only son to a drunk driver driving the wrong way on a highway, and I will never forget the pain of this man, over the loss of his son.

Gratitude In Motion – 2008

Mike then went on to create a ‘benefit’ for the 1st Marine Division Association (FMDA). He called it ‘Gratitude in Motion’. Unfortunately for the FMDA, Kerr wasn’t interested in being grateful. Here is a quote from a 2008 article:

Kerr has kept a relatively low profile since then, emerging only to get arrested last year for driving under the influence of alcohol. But, sources tell the Weekly, for the past month, Kerr has visited the boardrooms of Southern California corporations, pitching the Gratitude in Motion campaign in a quest for mucho moolah. The Weekly obtained a copy of the proposal, which places greater emphasis on raising the profile of donors instead of fulfilling its intended mission.

It promises prospective sponsors “enhanced relationship opportunities” with politicians and “offers a great return on investments” by “associat[ing] their brand with the essence the American spirit [emphasis in the original] of taking care [of] and honoring those who serve defending our freedom” and “increas[ing] sales and traffic through proven cause-marketing techniques.” Apparently lost in his own maze of corporate-speak, Kerr misidentifies the Tustin blimp hangar as standing on the former El Toro Marine Corps base.

 – Controversial Philanthropist Michael Scott Kerr’s New Career as a Wrapper

All of this is supposedly AFTER he asked God to forgive him of his sins. But, Michael Scott Kerr wasn’t done with his corruption. He still wasn’t paying his child support. And then, he and his third wife were at it again in 2009 and 2010.

The Honor Run – 2010

I’m going to reproduce most of the latest article. It’s not long:

With the exception of the late fraud king Eddie Allen, I can’t recall anyone who has burned more trusting people and made more enemies out of former allies than Michael Scott Kerr. You remember him: the guy who wanted to help troops and their children to the point of neglecting to pay child support, falsifying his résumé, making ridiculous promises, not properly registering a charity, and many, many more lies. But the chameleonic Kerr could always charm his way with veterans, who unfortunately don’t get as much respect as they should and who Kerr has a Holmes-esque boner to surround himself with them.

Leave it to Kerr to screw up that connection as well.

This latest controversy started innocuously enough on New Year’s Day, when Kerr’s wife and fellow huckster Jeannie sent out a email to an unknown group of people detailing their 2009, which included a trip to Maui while Kerr owed thousands of dollars in child support. She claimed her husband was the creator and producer of the Honor Run, a cross-country motorcycle trip designed to raise funds for a host of troop charities for which Michael served as executive director.

“While the economy did not render the financial support everyone had hoped for, there were over 10,000 participants, and lives were changed and spirits were lifted,” Jeannie Kerr wrote.

That drew a stinging rebuke from Major Bill Moriaga, popularly known as Monsoon, a Vietnam and Gulf War vet who sits on the Honor Run board of directors. He forwarded an email from the treasurer of the Honor Run’s sponsoring charity, the 1st Marine Division Association, who wrote,

“The Honor Run was a creation of Carl & Joeny Smith and a group out of Texas …not Mike Kerr and the Honor Run was patterned after the Texas Honor Ride,” he wrote. “The difference between The Honor Run and the Texas Honor Ride is that Mike Kerr has never been involved in the management and direction of the Texas Honor Ride, thus it is a financial success.”

And it gets better from there.

Jeannie’s brash email drew another rebuke from Roy White, former chair of the Snowball Express, the charity Kerr started to ostensibly honor the families of fallen soldiers but which he nearly ruined from the beginning. It was thanks to the due diligence of White and others that the Snowball Express is now a legitimate, wonderful charity.

“Monsoon, thanks for including me on this email and shedding light on the the actions of Mike Kerr to those on this email tree,” White wrote. “My apologies for ‘replying all’ but the emails being distributed by the Kerr’s in re-writing history is a pattern that has become all too familiar since I first met Michael Kerr on June 30, 2006 during a phone conversation. It must stop or others will be hurt by their actions.” White goes on to remind Monsoon that he warned the Honor Run about the Kerrs, not to gloat but to warn the others in the email tree never to work with them.

“The Kerr’s need to find some other means to contribute to society and earn a living; doing it on the backs of veterans will no longer be tolerated and we all need to take a firm stand against it,” White continued. “The fear of public humiliation has not thwarted their continued string of failures and distortions but those of us who know the truth must not sit still and not shine the light of truth to others.”

Kerr’s response? He accused Monsoon of trying to ride coattails!

“Impugning Monsoon will bring the wrath of many on your head,” an aghast White responded.

More–much more–on this in the coming days, but we’ll leave you with the words of Monsoon in another email: “We need to get this out to every organization and non-profit so Mike and Jeannie Kerr can never destroy the very essence of who we are as a free nation.”

 – Michael Scott Kerr Continues to Antagonize Former Allies

THAT was 2010.

The White Stone Reunion – 2015

I’m sure that there’s more corruption to uncover, but there’s one last piece that Mike didn’t quite get off the ground:

The White Stone Reunion 2016

By the time that you see this, Mike will probably have taken it down. So, here’s a screenshot:

The White Stone Reunion 2016 Screenshot

That endeavor bit the dust soon after he started it – probably because a bunch of people objected to what Mike was doing. Then, he launched the ‘Hear The Watchmen’ conference website, just over three weeks after launching the White Stone Reunion website.

Enter Mike Whitestone

This is where we run into a ‘Mike Whitestone’. Here is the GoFundMe campaign for HearTheWatchmen:

You’ll notice who started that:

Mike Whitestone

But, that’s not how it looked when I started my digging a couple weeks ago:

Mike Whitestone

Okay, THAT guy looks really familiar.

By the way, there’s NO oversight on ANY donations that you give him. Furthermore, NONE of what you give to him is ‘tax-deductible’. This is a ‘for-profit’ operation. With Mike’s history of dishonesty and bad management…

…do you REALLY want to trust him with donations?

And here’s his facebook page:

Mike Whitestone Facebook Page

Ooops. He made it ‘non public’. In fact, it seems like he did that after I started digging for information on him. Luckily, my wife was smart enough to tell me to take a screenshot early on, and here it is:

Yup. THAT is Mike Whitestone!
Yup. THAT is Mike Whitestone (aka, Mike Kerr)!

Oh, and you will notice that he started to come clean about his REAL name on his ‘Whitestone’ Facebook page. It’s funny how shining the light of truth on someone will do that.

And, let’s look at a screenshot of the Hear The Watchmen Facebook page:

Hear The Watchmen Facebook page
Hear The Watchmen Facebook page

See the guy in the lower left?

Right. That’s ALSO Mike Whitestone.

Those of you who have been ‘regulars’ of that page will notice that any posts by ‘Mike Whitestone’ have been deleted. Interesting.

If you have any doubts about who that is, just watch this:

Hear the Watchmen Dallas 3/18-20, 2016

Youtube shortlink:

Yup. THAT is Michael Scott Kerr, Mike Moore AND Mike Whitestone – all rolled into one person. It’s a three-fer! Oh, and there is only ONE Mike that is co-founder of ‘Hear the Watchmen’.

Cross Creek Ministries? Really?

Then, there’s this screenshot of the Twitter account for Hear The Watchmen:

Hear The Watchmen Twitter Feed
Hear The Watchmen Twitter Feed

You see that he’s the ‘Co-Founder’ of Hear the Watchmen. But, notice what else he claims to be ‘Co-Founder’ of.

Here, let me zoom in:

Hear the Watchmen Twitter Feed Zoom In
Hear the Watchmen Twitter Feed Zoom In

Oh. So, he’s now the Co-Founder of ‘Cross Creek Ministries’, too?


Well, I did a search. No ‘Cross Creek Ministries’ – anywhere – with any alias that Mike Kerr has been using. With all the lies that I’ve been finding in Michael Scott Kerr‘s past, I’m afraid that I’m going to need to chalk up yet another lie.

Although, if he shows me proof, I will gladly issue a retraction.

All of that is why I’ve started calling Michael Scott Kerr, ‘Three Mikes’. Until he drops those aliases – and any others that I haven’t yet found – he will STILL be ‘Three Mikes’ to me. In fact, I’ve even created a tag for him:

Hopefully, he’ll go away, so I won’t have to write any more articles about him.

More than Ted Broer, I personally believe that Michael Scott Kerr is at the heart of the attacks on Nathan Leal.

Three Mikes Threatens Lawsuit

Not long after Michael Scott Kerr left his fateful comment on Omega Shock, someone became concerned that I would suffer a lawsuit. They wanted me to understand the danger that I was in, so they sent me a copy of an email that was in their possession.

That email contained a subject line that read:

Cease and desist

It was also from someone with this email:

THAT is the email for Michael Scott Kerr, and you will find that email linked to the issues above. Here’s the text of that email:

Nathan and Donna Leal jointly as husband and wife and any party a part thereof,

In light of the disturbing evidence brought before us, and in our possession, please cease and desist from all derogatory and inflammatory statements regarding Michael Kerr, Jeannie Moore or Hear the Watchmen Ministry or any entity, person or company a part thereto.  These shall include any and all statements regarding the conference commonly known as Hear the Watchmen Dallas 2016, the organization, and all written or verbal communication designed to dissuade people from attending Hear the Watchmen Dallas 2016 or any statements regarding the speakers of Hear the Watchmen either publicly or privately.  In accordance a restraining order will be filed in the Superior Court of the County of Orange California forthwith regarding this matter.  You may choose to have your legal counsel or you may yourself appear in person in the Superior Court of California, Orange County California. located in Santa Ana California to defend yourself against this action once it has been served upon you by due process.

We also expect you to pay the amount of any and all damages you have caused as a result of your statements regarding the conference.  This amount is currently at $1,000.00 based upon cancellations of tickets directly attributed to such false statements you have made.  This is by no means a final and exact count of actual damages simply a point of reference.  You may at any time suggest a way to mitigate these damages through arbitration if you so choose.  All legal costs shall be yours and plaintiff will ask the court for punitive damages as well as reimbursement for any and all attorney’s fees accrued in the presentation of this matter.

Failure to comply with any of our requests above will compel us to immediately file the necessary additional legal measures through counsel.

This is the only non-attorney correspondence you will receive.

We are very disappointed it has come to this, and we will all keep you in our prayers.

God Bless,

Brother Mike


Hear the Watchmen Ministries

949- — – –06

[I have deleted most of his phone number – JL]

Sorry, ‘Brother’ Mike, but you should keep your prayers for yourself. That’s a pretty vile and awful piece of work that you’ve done there.

You call yourself a Christian?

Well I don’t, and I hope that you repent and TRULY accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, soon. Your place in eternity is in doubt – but, not MUCH doubt, if you know what I mean.

Two Others Disappear From Hear The Watchmen

I was contacted by someone who was originally going to appear as a speaker at the Hear The Watchmen conference. That person indicated that he/she was also threatened with legal action if he/she spoke out in support of Nathan Leal.

If you click this link…

…you will see the original roster of speakers at ‘Hear The Watchmen’.

The key difference between the original list and the current one, lies in the missing names:

Nathan Leal

Benjamin Baruch

Lyn Leahz

Ted Boer is also off the list, which is a point in favor of Three Mikes. The question in your mind should be about why Mr. Baruch and Ms. Leahz are no longer going to be speaking.

I Am Sickened By Three Mikes

By the way, none of the above is at Nathan Leal’s request, direction or whatever. I received a copy of the above, threatening email because the sender was worried that I would be sued.

I doubt that the sender wanted me to take it this far.

(Please note that I do not take threats
to the Body of Christ, sitting down.

I am sickened by this Mike who calls himself a Christian, while acting like the worst heathen. That blackens the name of Christ, and it is complete and utter blasphemy. Actions that defame the reputation of Christ are the very essence of the meaning of the word, blasphemy.

How dare Mike do this!

Of course, God will take care of him. What we must do is look to our own.

Another Appeal To David And Steve

So again, I reissue my appeal for reconciliation:

David and Steve,

Please. Reconsider your position.

You have sinned against Nathan Leal, and YOU MUST REPENT.

I know that you do not like to hear that from me, but it is still the truth. And, I am still your friend.

I believe that you’ve been lied to, and that you acted in ignorance, not knowing what the truth is. Please listen to the MP3 in this article, and do the right thing.

David and Steve, here is that MP3, again:

You MUST reconcile yourself to your brother that you have both harmed.

Yours in Christ,

John Little


The Timeline Of Events

Here is the timeline of events as best as I can determine. There are a lot of other bits and pieces that I am missing, but I believe that there is enough here to construct an order of events. I have not pulled out all the ‘loose ends’ on this, and I really do not want to.

Allow me to extend a big thank you to all who sent me emails, filling in many of the missing pieces. I have not included everything that you sent me. It was just too much.

However, should ‘Three Mikes’ be foolish enough to threaten me, I will dig deeper.

On December 18th, 2015, Ted Broer appeared on the Hagmann Report, here:

Dr. Ted Broer on The Official Hagmann & Hagmann Report- 12/18/15

Nathan Leal listened to the show live. When the show concluded, Nathan Leal immediately calls Doug and Joe Hagmann, three minutes after the show ends.

Nathan then calls Jeannie Moore (co-organizer of Hear The Watchmen) about his concerns over Ted Broer. Jeannie does not believe him. Later that same night, Nathan talks to Michael Scott Kerr. Mike agrees to listen to the Hagmann Report show (above).

Mike listens to the show and agrees that Ted is ‘New Age’, but tells Nathan that he will merely ask Ted to not mention New Age stuff.

That is not good enough. Nathan knows that his appearance at ‘Hear The Watchmen’ will give Ted Broer legitimacy in the eyes of those who listen to him. Nathan is justifiably concerned.

The Bible speaks of not keeping company with those who are called brethren, but are in sin. (1 Corinthians 5:11)

On December 19th or 20th, Nathan and his wife have prophetic dreams, separately. Both are awakened in the middle of the night, with these dreams. They are a confirmation of the path that they are on.

On December 21st, with those dreams ringing in his mind, Nathan Leal calls Ted Broer about his use of New Age material. Ted blasts Nathan for daring to question him.

With this knowledge that Ted will not relent, Nathan then contacts Jeannie Moore and Michael Scott Kerr that he will be resigning from Hear The Watchmen. He gives them two days notice.

On December 23rd, Nathan Leal sends out his public notice of resignation. He does not give all of the details and does not name names.

On December 28th, Ted Broer then appears on the Dave Hodges Show. Ted lies through his teeth. Here’s the show:


Ted comes on about halfway through the hour.


On December 30th, Nathan realizing that Ted’s lies have escalated the situation, he compiles his evidence and produces the following MP3:

On January 3rd and 4th, prompted by a reader on a somewhat different topic, I do some research and stumble over this controversy. I listen to the December 30th MP3 by Nathan Leal (above).

On January 6th, I write Nathan privately, telling him that I agree with him completely. Nathan responds much later with a very brief message.

(Since I can only respond to a tiny fraction of personal email sent to me, I understand.)

On January 7th, Steve Quayle and David Lankford appear on the Hagmann Report. Here’s the link, again:

On the morning of January 8th (EST), not knowing about the interview above, I post the following article:

I include a link to the page containing Nathan Leal’s MP3. At the end of the article, I mention my concern about Ted Broer without naming names, but I am disturbed.

In the evening of the same day (EST), I appear on the third hour of the Hagmann and Hagmann Report. You can hear about that, here:

On January 10th, Alexandra Devereux (pseudonym) informs me by email that Steve Quayle and David Lankford spent three hours blasting Nathan Leal for his resignation from the Hear The Watchmen conference. I listen and am grieved by what I hear.

Readers begin filling my inbox with complaints about the attack on Nathan by Steve and David. Some of those emails are a bit… um …high spirited.

On January 12th, not knowing why Nathan took down the original articles about his resignation, I ask Nathan for those articles. He does not respond. (Which is completely understandable!)

On January 15th, I write:

I expound further on what I know about the issue and how Ted Broer is completely wrong. I also tell those who wrote angry emails to Steve and David… to …apologize.

Please let me repeat that those who wrote in anger need to apologize for the hurt that you have caused.

On January 16th (early morning EST), I send a personal appeal to Steve Quayle, David Lankford, The Hagmanns and Dave Hodges. David Lankford is the only one to respond at that time.

THAT DAY/EVENING, I suspect that someone shared my personal email with Michael Scott Kerr – because that evening, Mr. Kerr sends a threat of legal action to Nathan Leal. It is possible that something else prompted ‘Three Mikes’ to do this, but the timing is suspicious.

On January 17th, ‘Brother Mike’ leaves a message:

Light dawns. I finally begin to see the missing, vital piece in this puzzle. The real problem is Michael Scott Kerr.

On January 19th, I receive an email from one of two other speakers removed from the ‘Hear The Watchmen’ conference. This person indicates that he/she was also threatened with legal action from Michael Scott Kerr. My suspicion is that the third person to ‘disappear’ from the conference was also threatened with legal action.

On January 22nd, I post:

I mention that I have even MORE information that will be forthcoming, later.

On January 29th, 2016, I send out the article that you are reading now.


A Final Thought

Brothers and sisters,

I hope that this is the end of my involvement. This has been personally painful for me, because of the harm that has been caused to the Body of Christ. Sins have been committed, sins that are an abomination to God.

My hope is that those who have sinned will repent and show the fruits of that repentance.

I have gained considerable respect for Nathan Leal in his stand. He has acted appropriately in every way. His detractors have not.

Now, to those of you who wish to send angry emails to the various parties…

…allow me to beg you not to do this.

Please remember that vengeance is in the hands of God. The sins committed will be handled by God. We must only stand for what is right… IN LOVE.

Remember that if we do not act in love, we sin. It is sometimes hard to see the love in some of my diatribes, but it is still there. I am often sorry for my angry writing, and I hope that you do not use my hasty language and sin against each other.

Steve Quayle and David Lankford acted hastily and without due diligence. They both are good brothers in Christ, and I will continue to speak well of them. However, I will also continue to ask them to reconcile themselves with Nathan Leal.

My hope is that we will put this episode behind us and move forward in the love of Christ.

Yours in Christ,

John Little



Read my book, Ezekiel’s Fire.

It’s free, and it may just save your life.

Here’s the website:

Or, download the PDF:





This is the research that I picked up over the past seven days. It is what I think to be relevant, and I hope that my comments can help you decide whether you want to read what I have posted.

Normally my research is more comprehensive but the situation above – along with the bigger one here in Taipei – has taken every extra bit of time and energy… and then some. Please pray for us and those engaged in this spiritual struggle, here in Taipei.

And no, I may never be able to talk about it.


These are the articles that have special significance, or do not fit in any one category.

Video: Fed Employees Caught Bragging About Federal Land Grabs

This is evil, vile and abominable.

Unfortunately, from my own work as a contractor in an Indiana state government agency, I can tell you that this mindset is entirely common. It is also completely evil. How dare they do this to us.

And, we are letting them do it.

Clinton emails so secret some lawmakers can’t read them | Fox News

The headline is really the only important part of this.

We are so dumbed-down, that we will vote for her, without realizing how important all this is.

HOW HITLER CAME TO POWER « The Burning Platform

We may not follow the same path that pre-Hitler Germany followed, but the conditions are dismayingly similar.

No, I do not think that Trump is a Hitler.

But, I suspect that he might be a Von Hindenburg – the guy who allowed Hitler to come to power.

Cashless Society War Intensifies During Global Epocalypse – The Great Recession Blog

Here’s a quote:

In the fall of 2015, the world descended into an economic apocalypse that will transform the globe into a single cashless society. This bold prediction is based on trends in nations all over the earth as shown in the article below.

58,586,256 Abortions in America Since Roe v. Wade in 1973 |

I am horrified by the murders. Every one of them weighs upon my conscience, and we will pay for every life taken.

That payment will be exacted by God, and it will be just.

Automaton Factory

Here’s the quote that pretty much says it all:

Does anyone even realize or care how far down the rabbit hole we’ve fallen?

Hello? Hello??

Is there anybody… out there?

Nope. Nobody here but us chickens.

Mitch McConnell Wants to Give Obama Unlimited War Powers

Either we live in the Last Days, or we’ve fallen into a bizarre fantasy world – a dystopian nightmare.

If I’d written this into the plot of a novel, the editors would have rightly demanded that I throw it out. But, it is completely and undeniably true.

‘If I die by committing suicide, don’t believe it’: Bill’s Former Mistress Fears Hillary’s Wrath

This is the kind of person Hillary is.

My suspicion is that there will be an uptick in ‘suicides’ and ‘accidents’ in the coming months and years.

Just for the record, I don’t drive. I would never, ever commit suicide. (It’s a sin.) I am NOT accident prone.

IMF recommends indebted governments to confiscate citizens’ assets

Thank God that I’m in Taiwan. The debt-to-GDP here is VERY small, by comparison. And, should Taiwan do this, the citizens would tear down the government with their bare hands.

(The Taiwanese are a very emotional bunch.)

But, I’m afraid that we’re looking at a civil war, in every country that engages in this theft of their citizens’ assets.

Oil Prices in 2016 Will Be Determined By These 6 Factors |

Okay, a lot of this will be opaque to many of you. But, I find the implications of this article to be interesting.

First, American oil production is collapsing. OPEC’s attempt to destroy the American fracking industry is succeeding. Oil will probably see a rise by this summer.

This means that ISIS will have more money to play with, from their paymasters in the Persian Gulf.

However, Russia will ALSO have more money to play with, as will Iran. So, expect war to heat up in Syria and the rest of the Muslim world.

Unfortunately for Saudi Arabia, Saudi production has hit a wall. They will NOT be able to increase production, and it will be downhill from here. That’s a long-term OUCH for the corrupt monarchs.

Iran will ALSO have trouble because they oil production infrastructure is abysmal. They will need MASSIVE help from their new friends in Moscow to modernize their production. But, that help will cement the relationship between Iran and Russia.

We will hafta see what happens, but I consider this to be an interesting data point.

Someone Made a List of Politicians That Admitted the System is Controlled by Special Interests

Hey, even professional liars can tell the truth on occasion.

Shot in the Face — Execution Style: Eyewitness Says Oregon Militiaman Murdered by Cops; “He Had His Hands in the Air” |

Unfortunately, I’m prepared to believe the accounts of the daughter and witnesses over that of the police.

This is murder, plain and simple, and the US government will get away with it.

THE MURDER HEARD AROUND THE WORLD 1-27-2016 « doomerdoug

Here is a follow up article for the above. I’m afraid that ‘Doomer Doug’ is right.

Neofeudalism vs. Socialism | Armstrong Economics

I wish that Martin Armstrong was wrong. I certainly want to say that he is wrong, because we face centuries of ‘Dark Ages’ if he’s right.

Of course, we won’t face a Dark Age. What we will face is the Antichrist. This collapse of government will cause the Antichrist to rise, because people will be desperate for someone, anyone, to bring them security.

Welcome to the Last Days.

The Empire Has No Clothes – Monty Pelerin’s World

No, the empire really doesn’t have any clothes on, and it’s NOT a pretty sight. Tyranny and corruption is reaching a point where people will begin tearing down their governments.

In fact, it has already started.

These efforts to reform their governments will fail. That failure will lead to civil war. The civil war will lead to collapse and chaos, and people will beg for a ‘savior’.

Lucifer will step forward with the perfect candidate for that job.

We will call him ‘The Antichrist’.

Why Is The Fox Network Spending Millions To Bring The Devil Into Your Home? | Now The End Begins

VERY good question!


These are the articles that warn of devastation, and I’m afraid that the signs of it are getting bigger and more ominous. This is very, very bad, so I hope that you will pay attention to what is in this category.

Banks admit to $1 TRILLION in “non-performing” loans; must be re-capitalized using depositor money thru bail-ins! « InvestmentWatch

A TRILLION in ‘non-performing loans’?

You do NOT want to have money in the bank, when they finally have to deal with that.

epocalypse – The Great Recession Blog

I’m afraid that David Haggith is right about what is coming – an epocalypse. And, this collapse is going to usher in that ‘epocalypse’, in which electronic currency will be brought in and used to subjugate the people.

Forced Economic Free Fall the Precursor to Collapse: “The World Is About To Enter A Global Depression Unlike Anything Seen Before”

There are not GOOD places to hide when a global depression hits. But, there are SOME places that are worse than others.

Such as the United States.

America really has become the Lord of War, and this economic collapse may be all that she needs to make that ‘lordship’ a stunning new reality – and complete catastrophe.

Deep “Freight Recession” Hits Railroads, Trucking, Air Freight

More data points on the path to economic and financial devastation. It doesn’t seem like we’ve hit bottom, yet. And, THAT’s scary.

The Other Revenant

Yup, the Federal Reserve seems to have run out of anti-Bear spray.

The chart at the bottom indicates a wild ride this year – and next.

Every Economic Indicator Says We Are In Economic Free Fall

Unfortunately, this article screams everything that I’ve been saying for several years.

Of course, you might say that I’ve been wrong all those years, and you’d be right. I fully admit to getting timing wrong.

But, the Bible said that these times would come, and I’m afraid that we are very close to those times.

Why Dip Buyers Will Get Clobbered: The US Economy Isn’t Doing “Just Fine”

If you have ANY money in stocks… well …I pity you. Here is the first paragraph of this article:

As of June 2008 no Wall Street banking house was predicting a recession, yet by then the Great Recession—–the worst economic downturn since the 1930s—– was already six months old, as per the NBER’s subsequent official reckoning.

I hope that you got that.

The point is that our society will ALWAYS get the timing of a ‘recession’ wrong. And, I put ‘recession’ in quotes, because I’m looking at a DEPRESSION.

We’ll see.

Kyle Bass Warns Of “A Lot More Pain To Come” Before This Is Over

My ears perked up when I heard Kyle Bass say that India is a semi-bright spot for emerging markets.

Well, it has one other ‘bright’ aspect to it. It has one of the lowest abortion rates in the world.

To me, THAT is VERY bright.

Near Record Foreign Central Bank Demand For 2 Year Treasuries

For those looking for a collapse of the US dollar, there will be a delay. Far too many are demanding US dollars.

As long as that demand remains high, the dollar will continue to be strong. The question is… what will cause it to fall?

That day of reckoning is coming. How soon? I don’t know.

It could be this year. It could be next. Or, even the one after. Just don’t wait for it to arrive at your door.

“Zombie Ships” – Why Global Shipping Is Even Worse Than The Baltic Dry Suggests

I’ve been talking ad nauseum about the importance of the Baltic Dry Index, and what it is showing us about the current economy.

But, I’ve also been concerned about container shipping. And, the word that we have is… ZOMBIES!

How Do You Know When Your Society Is In The Midst Of Collapse?

As much as I disagree with Brandon Smith on other subjects, I completely agree with what he is saying here.

We are ALREADY in a collapse. The question is when the FINAL STAGES of a collapse arrives.

Next Crash Worse than 1929 & 2008 Combined-Michael Pento

I’m afraid that Michael Pento is right, and you can hear it in the video embedded at the bottom of this article.

Here’s a quote from the writeup:

Money manager Michael Pento says the next crash will be one for the record books. Pento contends, “If you look at any of the economic data coming out, it screams recession. It will be one of the worst recessions since 2008 and 1929—combined.” This is a description of a global depression. Pento contends, “Unfortunately, I think that’s exactly where we are headed. It’s not my opinion. It’s not a Cassandra. It’s not my view. It’s the entire view of all global markets. China is 45% down. There’s a bear market in Europe. There’s a bear market in Japan. There is a bear market in most of the United States.”

Manufacturing Depression Enters Uncharted Territory: Caterpillar Retail Sales Have Never Been Worse

The graph inside this article is disheartening. It really shows that this recession is global and deep.

Frankly, I think that it’s wrong to say recession. It’s much more than that.

US Crude Inventories Are The Highest Since The Great Depression

This is yet ANOTHER indicator of our economy. The words ‘highest since the Great Depression’ should strike terror in anyone who hasn’t prepared for the worst economic times in the history of mankind.

Fed Back-Pedals Hawkishness, Hints At Policy Error: “Monitoring Global Developments”, Admits “Growth Slowed Last Year”


She used the word ‘Growth’ and ‘Last Year’ in the same sentence.

I don’t think that those three words belong in the same room with each other.

Michael Maloney-The Greatest Crisis in the History of Mankind is here! – YouTube

I always pay attention to Mike. He’s a source of good information.


If you can find a better store of value than gold and silver, go for it.

Outside of God, a safe location, food and water, there’s nothing better than gold and silver – as far as my limited intelligence can figure out.

But, if you have a better idea, share it with us.

Gold Fund Manager Laments The Big Payoff “Will Not Be Cause For Celebration”

The last paragraph is what saddens me about buying gold and silver:

“Our winnings are not going to come from the backs of politicians who sold out their constituents in mountains of debt; it’s not going to come from the bankers who loaded up their balance sheets with trillions of dollars of derivatives; it’s not going to come at the expense of the celebrities in Hollywood or rockstars of New York. Our winnings will come on the backs of innocent people around the world whose prices will rise as their wages fall.. it’s going to come from the people who wake up one morning to find their savings have been devalued or bailed-in… it’s going to come from the pension funds of teachers and firefighters. The irony is that when gold finally pays off – it will not be a cause for celebration.”

I hate to say it, but he’s right. The hard-working poor will suffer the most, while our investment in precious metals pays off.

BREAKING NEWS: COMEX Registered Gold Inventories Plummet 73% In One Day

YIKES! This is BIG.

Basically it means that the largest distributer of gold in the world has had a shocking collapse in the amount of gold that they can sell.

For those of you who may not understand the impact of this, consider that the price of an item is determined by the intersection of supply and demand.

In this case, it looks like demand has risen while supply has fallen.

THAT, my brothers and sisters is a recipe for a rapid increase in the price of gold.

Of course, other events could intervene, but this is going to be interesting to watch.

Something Snapped At The Comex

And, THIS is more supporting evidence from ZeroHedge. Make that, YIKES TIMES TWO!

The Best Performing ‘Currency’ Of The 21st Century Is…

Now THIS is interesting. Gold really is the best performing currency, since January 2000.


It is not often that we get a chance to laugh.


This came from a ZeroHedge comment, and it just struck me as funny.

Gallows humor, but still funny.

Sanders’ Success Simplified | Zero Hedge

Ummmm… Yes.


There will come a point when people will no longer tolerate the murders, rapes and vandalism of the Muslims among us. I do not wish any harm to the Muslims, but they are doing this to themselves.

Eventually, their actions will spark civil war. And, it will be fulfillment of prophecy.

WATCH: ‘Angela Merkel You Have Killed Germany!’ – 16 Year Old Girl’s Migrant Fears Video That Some Claim Facebook Are ‘Censoring’

This girl is old enough to be my daughter. She is an example of every man’s daughter. And, if I were her father, I would be driven into a rage over what she is forced to go through.

What Merkel has done, will end in violence and death. In fact, it already has started.

REPORT: Locals Fled Pool After Migrants M—–bated Into Jacuzzi, Defecated Into Kid’s Pool, Invaded Girls Changing Rooms

I wasn’t even sure that I could publish this headline. This is just disgusting.

Sweden’s Alexandra Mezher stabbed to death at CHILD migrant centre

Unfortunately, Swedish politicians ARE at fault for her death. They let these murderous barbarians in, so it really IS their fault.

Of course, the greatest fault lies with Islam, the very same Islam that is attempting to destroy Christianity in the Middle East, while trying to destroy Israel.

European Union is committing ‘ritual suicide with its migration policy’

Whether or not this is a ritual, is hard to say. But, it IS suicide. And, it will be an awful fulfillment of Matthew 24:7.


These are the articles that describe and demonstrate what Islam really is.

If anyone wishes to say that Islam is the religion of peace, show them these articles.

Islamic Murderer: Christian Girls Exist to “Pleasure Muslim Men”

Unfortunately, this is an accurate reflection of Islam. This is EXACTLY how Muslims view non-Muslims.

Those who do not follow or conform to this view of Islam are not good Muslims.


These are the articles that point to an apocalypse that will change the face of the world. I detail that apocalypse in:

That is a five hundred page book that is completely free. You can also get it in PDF form.

These articles are just more indicators of what is coming.

Erdoğan says Turkey will not allow Russia to settle north of Syria

Yeah, the reason WHY he doesn’t want Russia there, is because Russia is blocking Turkey’s support for ISIS.

Conflict in Syria Escalates as Russia and US Establish Air Bases Along Turkish Border

It looks like Syria is slowly pushing back the rebels. But, the question is whether this conflict will escalate into a Russo-American war.

Iran, Saudi Arabia “Clash” Over Syria At “Secret”, Closed-Door Meeting In Davos

I’m not quite sure how this will play out in terms of the coming of Gog and Magog. It appears to me that Iran smells blood, and that Saudi Arabia is afraid of what Iran might do. America may not have the ability to stop an Iranian attack on Saudi Arabia.

US, Britain, France Ready Military Action In Libya As ISIS Closes In On Country’s Oil

Remember that Libya is a part of the coming of Gog and Magog. So, we want to watch how this plays out.

My suspicion is that ISIS will be pushed out, and the Libyans will turn to Iran and Russia for help in keeping them out. We will hafta see how this works out, but unpleasant will be an understatement.

These Stunning Images Depict The Destruction Of Homs, Syria’s Third Largest City

This is Homs, but it could just as easily be Damascus.

The fulfillment of Isaiah 17 continues to move forward.


I despise those who abuse and bully others. I am repulsed by those who slander the innocent. I am sickened by racists and antisemites. I am horrified by those who claim to be Christians while attacking the State of Israel.

If you attack Israel, you support Satan and Islam.

Israel is not perfect, and I have my reservations about some of what they have done. But, I can say that ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET!!!

In fact, I have FEWER reservations about how Israel acts than ANY OTHER COUNTRY THAT I HAVE INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF!!!

Israel isn’t perfect, but she is far more perfect than ANY developed country on the face of this planet, and what we have been doing to her is a disgrace and a sin.

God is at work IN Israel and WITH Israel.

If you are against that, you are against God.

So, choose which side that you are on. And, if you are with Satan, then get out of my sight. Satan is the god of Islam and Antizionism. Claiming to be Antizionism is just another way of saying that you are a Satanist.

Rebel Planet Dispatch: WHERE ARE THE MEN ?

The video by Caroline Glick is POWERFUL. And, I want to thank Marcel for making that available to us.

If you are against Jews building on property that is their own, then you are a racist.

What is Chrislam?

I am continually horrified by those who have taken up the cause of Chrislam. It is an insane and diabolical heresy that attacks the very core of what we believe.

Unfortunately, I find many in the ‘Christian’ alternative media advocating ‘Chrislamist’ ideas, while slandering the only country in the Middle East where Christianity is growing.

How UTTERLY hypocritical.

Here are the last two cogent sentences in the article:

Ironically, Chrislam is entirely self-defeating. If God no longer honours his covenant with the Jewish people and the Land of Israel, then the foundations of both Christianity and Islam collapse.

A God who changes his mind about the people of the covenant, i.e. the Jews, is no longer the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus or even Mohammed.

Israeli Arabs furious over Islamic Movement ban, to mark day for Israeli Arab rights

Okay, so during World War II, the American Nazi Party and the ‘We Love Nazi Germany Movement’ would have been banned by the US government.

Israel is egaged in exactly the same kind of war against Islam and Islamic entities. When at war – and Israel is – you are not required to tolerate activities by the enemy in your country.

But, of course, everyone considers Israel to be a ‘special case’.

We demand that Israel do what we would never, ever do.

What would happen if Israel withdrew from the West Bank and ended the ‘siege’ of Gaza

THIS is an exceptional post, and here’s an exceptional quote:

Conveniently forgotten is that the borders of Gaza were open after the 2005 withdrawal, and it could have become a Dubai on the Mediterranean with billions in foreign investment, if only the Palestinians choose economic freedom over eliminationist ideology. The choice was simple from a Western perspective, accept a Jewish State living side by side in peace, and benefit from the mutual economic cooperation. When it all quickly fell apart, instead of realizing that it was not about territory but Islamist ideology, critics managed to blame Israel for the Palestinian’s rejection of the open door to prosperity that was presented to them by saying they hadn’t coordinated their leaving in just the right way with the PA.

I was in Israel when this happened.

The Israelis were fools to think that their evacuation of Gaza and their offer of open boarders and complete and utter peace… they foolishly thought that the world would recognize their good intentions.

Now, Israel is tarred and feathered by the an evil world with evil intentions. The world backs a Gaza government that is as insane as ISIS.

Furthermore, it appears that Israel is contemplating yet ANOTHER withdrawal. This time, from the ‘West Bank’. They think that THIS TIME, the world will see that Israel has done everything that they could, to make peace. This is utterly insane, but Israelis are actually planning to do this.

Here is what will result, quoting the author of this piece:

Israel will be told to give up one thing after another for peace and ignore the terrorism as history’s punishment for the years of occupation and humiliation. But the first dead Palestinian child who is used as a human shield, or is lost as collateral damage will bring an outpouring of condemnation against the Israeli bullies.

This is Hitler all over again. Israel is like Czechoslovakia, when the Czechs were thrown to Hitler’s wolves.

Just as our appeasement of evil ended in the slaughter of tens of millions – actually hundreds of millions – people during World War II and it’s aftermath, so too this appeasement of the vile and evil Muslims will lead to another World War and the destruction of vast swaths of our civilization.

If you are against Israel, you are a supporter of genocide.

Oh, but wait, there’s a bit of irony here – again, from the article:

Do you know who doesn’t want Israel to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza? It’s the Palestinian Authority, Jordan, and much of the Gulf states who fear an IS takeover in the Levant. IS already works with Hamas in the Sinai, proving that the radical jihadists of IS are just a different shade of Muslim Brotherhood Islamism. Remember that Hamas is child of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist group whose long-term goals are the same as IS, but whom the Obama administration touted as a force for “moderate Islamism.”

Ah yes, the irony never ends.

The key to tackling extremism is despair. Rob them of the hope that their wild fantasies will win out the day. – Benyamin Netanyahu

Netanyahu has taken flack for his comment, but he is absolutely and completely right.

Here’s the quote:

The key to tackling extremism is despair. Rob them of the hope that their wild fantasies will win out the day.

Anyone who disagrees with that comment is an idiot, and should be given ANY responsibility for ANYTHING outside of trash collection. Maybe not even that.

“ISIS Has Enjoyed Turkish Money For Oil For A Very, Very Long Time”: Israeli Defense Minister

As the evidence accumulates, those idiots who have been claiming that Israel is supporting ISIS… well …the idiots are being proven to be idiots.

Israel KNOWS what would happen if ISIS wins, and THAT is NOT what Israel wants.


I truly hope that you’ll be ready for this
(That’s a link. Click it for a discussion on preparation.)

A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.Proverbs 22:3


If you find a flaw in my reasoning, have a question, or wish to add your own viewpoint, leave a comment on the website. Your input is truly welcome.


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273 thoughts on “My Report on Nathan Leal”

  1. שלום יוחנן
    תודה לאל יש לך חוצפה לגמרי!
    אמשיך באנגלית אן לי די עומק לשחיח בערית על נושא כבד כמו זה.
    No need to list later parts as a comment and if you do editing is preferred.
    Every time I read your articles I feel a need to reach out to you on a semi personal level.
    I am so glad to see a genuine/realistic supporter of Israel. I am an expiate Kiwi living in Perth who spent a few years in Israel over 3 decades ago (I am a “goy” of course otherwise I would still be there). I went there (second time with my lovely new Aussie wife) believing that down the track it would have a purpose. Unfortunately life passes by, good intentions fade and faith grows a little dim.
    In 2011 I re awoke – everything that I learnt about end-times was happing in front of my face!

    I was attending a “home fellowship” and because of a debate I opened the Tanach in Hebrew and had the strongest experience of the presence of the Holy Spirit to date in my life. It started a passion that has not stopped which involves several hours a day reading (aloud) the scriptures both Tanach and Brit Hadasha using resources provided by the Bible Society of Israel. I am also reading modern Hebrew newspaper headlines and have a PC user account in Hebrew.

    But for what? I am no leader or writer or evangelist or strong personality – I am more of an assistant person and am used (in a limited fashion) as a resource by the local church. But what brings tears to my eyes is seeing Israelis proclaiming faith in Yeshua. ( So what can a 63yr old semi fluent person do? When there are young Israelis effectively witnessing?

    My world view – Jacob Prasch / Dr Michael Lake are men that I look up to.
    Enough of the personal.

    Thank you for investigating the situation with Nathan Leal, The Hagmanns, Steve and Dave.
    I listened to interment parts of the 1/7/16 Steve & David without knowing the background of Nathan Neal / Ted Broer clash. Both my wife and I, who up until that point in our lives had a great deal of respect for Steve and David and the Hagmanns, found ourselves uneasy. Fortunately we had learnt through the school of hard knocks not to put anyone on a pedestal because they invariably fall off. Because of this we still listen, support and recommend but have a more guarded attitude. My impression was fair enough – someone upset them – but why go on a very long war path rant?. A heat of the moment reaction to an inappropriate comment is a given but after there has been time to reflect it does not come across in the best light (vengeance is mine says the LORD). These gentleman are human and will make mistakes and if we write people of because of mistakes passion or quirks then we are all lost. (Premeditation and underhand purpose are a different kettle of fish) Perhaps this is a sign of the effectiveness of their ministries – they are over the target and are taking flak – the devil is master marksman and I pray for their protection from his wiles. I see no guile only good intentions and passion on the part of Steve, Dave, Nathan and the Hagmanns.

    • שלום גארי,

      אתה מאוד מוזמן, אחי

      I’m afraid that my long absence from Israel has added even more rust to a rusty command of Hebrew. But, it is good to have a comment from a brother who loves Israel as much as you do.

      Keep up that love for Israel, because the time is coming in which all faithful children of God will need to come to Israel’s aid.

      I also am not Jewish, and I refer to this as ‘being as Jewish as the neighbor’s cat’. Among Jews, that is CONSIDERABLY not Jewish. My grandparents on both sides were very racist, so I’ve come a long way. It is a miracle that my parents both love Israel so much, and currently live there.

      Thank you for this website:

      That looks exceptionally powerful. Well done.

      Allow me to offer my own favorite website, in return:

      We consider that to be our home church.

      You have the right attitude about this conflict. I too believe that Steve, Dave, Nathan and the Hagmanns have good intentions. My hope is that they will all realize where the truth is and reconcile themselves with each other.

      I truly wish that I did not have to point out the sin in the matter. It truly grieves me to do this.

      Thank you, Gary! Excellent points, and not edits necessary.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little


      PS. To the rest of the commenters, who left comments, this is the first of more than forty comments, and it will take time for me to get through them all. I give a big thank you, to all who have given their input. I really appreciate it.

  2. Dear John,
    While watching this situation unfold, I like many in this community of believers, prayed. We prayed because we, on our own, had little power or influence to do more. This feeling of powerlessness and the thinking that Someone Somewhere needed to do Something is potentially the reason that so many hasty and harmful emails were sent, throwing gasoline on an already out of control fire. It is my opinion that Nathan has been unfairly equated with the senders of these emails and this may be one of the reasons he has not been welcomed back into the fold. Let me be clear: He never asked anyone to send emails or to defend him. He is allowing the Word to stand on its own. The Word needs no defense and will stand forever.
    I want to thank you John for being obedient and willing to be a mediator between these brothers. Your task is not an easy one. you were chosen for the job for the very fact that you would not have chosen it for yourself. You have nothing to gain by inserting yourself into this other that the Glory of God that brothers be united again around truth.
    Thank you for being the Someone Somewhere who can actually do Something. We all will be praying for you and also for the brothers who this involves. This situation has a potential to be one of the most powerful, public examples of how to truly live the Christian life if people would only bow to the Lord and seek their own repentance and reconciliation. That is my prayer.

    • Hi Mindy,

      Very, VERY well said, sister.

      In other fires, I have been a ‘thrower of gasoline’, so this is an opportunity to make peace, instead of acting as a ‘firestarter’.

      You have also made an excellent call to repentance for those who have done injury with their words. Those of us who are passionate, will make passionate wounds. I understand why that was done. But, we need to make sure that we deal with the sin, and not attack the character of those who sinned.

      We MUST act in love.

      Keep up the good work, Mindy. I am grateful for your prayers, as well as your Godly attitude.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  3. John,
    Thank you so much for this gut-wrenching article. Like you, I (and many others) were saddened when Nathan was chastised for exposing truth. Most of us also love Steve and David and it was painful to hear that discussion. Our hopes and prayers are that they will man-up and do the right thing before the Body of Christ so that we can all move on and do battle against the real enemy. I hope and pray that you are not also cast aside, but the tone of your article is one of humility, grace, and, as the scripture says, truth with mercy (both are necessary). Blessings to you, brother, and keep up the good fight and thanks for earnestly contending for the faith. God’s peace to you and yours!

  4. Hi John
    I know Benjamin Baruch. His real name is Bill Brock. I have prayed with him on the phone several times when he called wanting to chat and pray. I’m a Pastor here near Cape May, N.J.
    I simply want to say that the Spirit is using you here to insist on forgiveness and reconciliation. Not an easy task but necessary. I am interested to see how Steve and David respond.
    The last of the last days are here. We are at the end of the final Jubilee.
    This June 7th will complete 49 years of Jewish control of Jerusalem. I’m expecting our Lord to send judgments starting this June.

    Bob Brown

    • Hi Bob Brown,

      Interesting point. Forty Nine is the seventh Shmita. Then, the year following the seventh Shmita, there will be the Fiftieth year, the Year of Jubilee (shnat Yuval –
      שנת יובל ). That Yuval will be in 2017.

      Is this ‘numerology’ significant?

      I’m not sure, but I believe that there might be significance to this. It’s hard to say. But, I certainly give it enough significance to make preparations for it.

      For those who wish to understand the significance of what I mean, go here:

      You can also find the PDF for download there, or elsewhere on this site.

      Thank you, Bob. Excellent points.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  5. Hey John, another great article. Thank you for you diligence in searching & seeking the Truth.
    I really don’t understand Pastor David & Steve’s position, hopefully they will see the whole picture & repent.
    I whole heartily believe in Nathan’s position is correct & his heart is right in wanting the truth to be made known. We definitely must pray for wisdom & unity in the body of Christ, as long as it is Biblically based. Ted’s views & his own words condemn him as definitely new age in his medical beliefs. Hopefully, he will repent & be delievered of all his new age false doctrines & become a true mature man of God.
    I pray every day that I will be delivered of any deception & any false beliefs that I might have about God, Jesus Christ & the Word of God. I continuously pray for all men to come to the True Knowledge of Jesus Christ.
    Be Blessed & may the Peace of God guard your heart & mind.

  6. Thank you so much for standing up for Nathan Leal. I have heard him speak only a few times and it is quite evident his love for the Lord and His truth is genuine. I was really starting to question Ted Broer’s teaching. He is an ‘intelligent’ man. So when he was saying he didn’t know he was using New Age terms-well – that was just not believable. However, I do believe the church should be warning people about new age teachings, then perhaps so many would not be caught unaware.
    I could say so much more, but just want to thank you and Nathan for standing up for the truth! I hope and pray all involved in this hurtful episode will do what is right and as the Lord leads them.
    Again, thank you

  7. Interesting how 3 Mikes moved on from swindling veterans and found it more profitable to swindle the religious folk and how the Christian Business Shepherds are the top ones deceived.

    Wounded Warrior Project has recently been outed as a scam.
    You can be sure if it’s a good cause, the greedy, wicked ones are there milking it in these dark and evil days… and it’s so easy with such gullible, naive and trusting sheep.
    Obama, Trump, Hillary are proof of how stupid and blind American’s have become.

    How is it that greedy Mike duped so many of the ‘watchmen’

    Because profit$, making a name have blinded them ?

    His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
    Isaiah 56:10

    The blind follow the blind leaders and both fall into the ditch.

    • Hi Marcel,

      Thank you for yet another example of the corruption that is out there.

      From the link that you posted, only 52% of the money received goes to services for wounded veterans.


      You are so right, Marcel. I wish that you were not.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  8. John,
    I thank you for being an upstanding man of God. I too, heard the episode with Pastor David and Steve. About half hour into the show Inturned it off. It grieved my spirit to hear two great men of God tag teaming against Nathan. I did not have any specifics about the situation, but knew that it was wrong. Mainly because they are all men of GOD. I Too hope that they right their wrongs with God and each other.

    We must remember that the devil,comes to kill, steal, and destroy. And this is what he has accomplished. Look at the destroyed relationships. Look at the stolen wisdom we miss from Nathan. Look at how this has killed a portion of the body of Christ. There is division amongst us.

    I urge all sideline believers to not take sides. This is not the situation to pick a team. In the end we are all Team Jesus members. Let’s take that and go,to him in sincere prayer for Nathan, Pastor Lankford, Steve Quayle, 3 Mikes, The Haggmans, and yourself John.

    With the coming days of darkness we need all of our spiritual lights fully charged and ready to shine. Finally, thank you for exposing the truths and no truths. You did it in the way that glorifies and honors God. Please know that you will be blessed for doing so.

    The seeds have been planted now we can rightly and Godly judge by the fruits these trees will bear.

  9. Shalom Yochanan/John:

    I understand your grief in this matter….as I am grieved at the whole of what I see going on in the assemblies/congregations. For what it’s worth; I see a whole lot of back-stabbing from the very ones who call themselves by the name of Messiah….to say the least, it’s appalling, and according to scripture, from Royal Covenant Torah, this very type of behavior from such people, are bringing the name of our Abba/Father and His Moshiach/Messiah to naught…Shemot/Ex 20:7

    7 “You do not bring*n1 (To bring down, to disparage or denigrate, desecrate, make of ill repute) the Name of יהוה your Elohim to naught, for יהוה does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught.

    Yes, I quote the Torah, because we’re still to observe it, for it is the foundation of all of scripture, and there was no “New Covenant” at that time that Messiah was here. Anyway, the spirit or ruach of ha s.a.tan is among all of us and affects, ALL of us, even you, even me, and even Steve Quayle and David Lankford….this is why Sha’ul/Paul told us in EphsiYah/Eph 6:11-18….

    11 Put on the complete armour of Elohim, for you to have power to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 Because we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against authorities, against the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual matters of wickedness in the heavenlies. 13 Because of this, take up the complete armour of Elohim, so that you have power to withstand in the wicked day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand, then, having girded your waist with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having fitted your feet with the preparation of the Good News of peace; 16 above all, having taken up the shield of belief with which you shall have power to quench all the burning arrows of the wicked one. 17 Take also the helmet of deliverance, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of Elohim,*n2 18 praying at all times, with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, watching in all perseverance and supplication for all the set-apart ones;

    • Hi Andrew,

      Thank you for that comment, and for the spirit in which you gave it.

      However, I am compelled to ask if you believe that Jesus is God.

      If you do not believe that Jesus is God, then I fear for you eternal condition. For, to deny the deity of Jesus is to deny Christ.

      There are 613 laws in the Mosaic covenant, and Jesus came to free us from the condemnation that those laws make against us. It is not possible to follow The Law.

      My hope, Andrew, is that you will escape that trap of Judaizing.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  10. John
    Satan’s time is short and he is extremely active stealing, killing and destroying members of the Body of Christ. (John 10:10)
    I believe you have done what is biblical in your article by reproving the offending parties, thereby bringing all of this into the Light. (Eph 5) The cost personally to you for stating the truth and providing the evidence may be the loss of fellowship with a number of brothers. Please listen to the Jan 15, 2016 Sheila Zilinsky radio interview with Pastor Lankford and Steve Quayle. It was very obvious to me that Pastor Lankford was very angry with the so called Yahweh people. I had to turn him off. I have lived in Israel and have a deep unshakable love for “Yahweh’s people” both Jew and gentile. My wife and I are walking away from this abomination called “Christianity” and will worship Yahweh, through Yeshua without all of this ENDLESS STRIFE. How can the Jewish people EVER come to know THEIR Messiah, Yeshua Ha Mashiach, when THE Body of the Messiah acts like THIS??

  11. Hi, John. This is all so very disturbing. ANYONE who has followed Nathan Leal for even the briefest of time would know that Nathan is an EXHAUSTIVE researcher. He will follow an information trail until he reaches the absolute end. Further, one would know beyond any shadow of doubt, that Nathan ALWAYS takes issues, concerns and questions directly to the LORD before he steps forward. And, as a pastor as well as watchman, Nathan knows the Scriptural process for church discipline. He would NEVER step outside those parameters. Any suggestion that Nathan would act contrary to that reflected in this paragraph is ludicrous.

    As for Steve, Pastor Lankford, and the Hagmanns, I am dumb-founded. Could it be that these gentlemen were actually referring to another party? What is clearly known of the character of all these men suggests that perhaps they were referring to another, and NOT Nathan? I know from years of listening to Steve that he has way too much experience with being maligned and slandered by others to engage in such himself.

    I don’t know, it is all so very unsavory. Perhaps there are other matters behind the scenes that are yet unknown. NONE of this seems possible, given the godly characters of the gentlemen above. We can all surely err, but these occurrences as noted are so massive, it seems that surely ONE of them would call out to the others that they should stop and take the matter to the LORD before advancing any further.

    I feel sick inside. And very, very sad. I count on all these gentlemen on a daily basis, and while they know not of me at all, I am foolish enough to think I know a little bit of them after years of listening, reading, and reflecting.

    As for the three Mikes, Broer, et al; SHAME on you. Michael’s words to Satan over the body of Moses come to mind here. I don’t like to say those words out loud, or write them, because the rebuke those words carry is so profound. Even so, those words may be appropriate here.

    Please, dear brothers, stop the hemorrhaging…. bert

    • Hi bert,

      Thank you for that clearly heart-felt plea.

      I share that same desire.

      Unfortunately, my personal communication with David and Steve indicated that they really were attacking Nathan Leal.

      Thank you, Bert. Excellent comment.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  12. Thank you John, blessings be upon you in your spiritual battles. I appreciate the truth and research you have put into the defense of a brother you don’t know so well. I too, after listening myself, found Nathan’s account with all the evidence presented to be compelling and true. I never understood why Quayle and Lankford felt the need to attack Nathan for following true biblical teaching on how to handle the situation? What Quayle and Lankford did was contrary to biblical teaching and they have lost my respect for it, how can they be so haughty while in the wrong?

    Ted has been proven to be untruthful after his remarks on Dave Hodges about the matter. I have enjoyed listing to Quayle over the years but I find Lankford to be a heretic when he preaches that the law was done away with and nailed up onto the cross (contrary to the words of Christ – for Heaven and Earth have not passed away! Matthew 5:17-18). I’m disappointed by the entire response to Nathan and I pray reconciliation can come to those involved who are genuine of heart.

    • Hi Chris S.,

      Thank you for that comment.

      In defense of David Lankford, I must say that I agree with his position. The Law really WAS nailed to the cross, and we are no longer bound by the 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant. You can find further clarification of this in Paul’s letter to the Galatians.

      Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

      But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

      – Galatians 3:24-25

      This is what David Lankford means, when he says that we are no longer under the Law.

      Thank you, Chris.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  13. Thank you, thank you, God bless you, and thank you, John! This is so enlightening. I couldn’t figure it out. How these “men of God” could turn and be so nasty to Nathan! I was heartbroken when, after the New Year, I hear that Nathan will no longer be a guest on H & H. Since I have heard other “watchmen” say that they think this whole thing has gotten out of hand –
    see and others on H & H

    This thing has gotten out of hand because the sin of these brothers had not been fully exposed or called out by any other brothers. They have been empowered by that to continue to ostracize and isolate Nathan. Thank God for you, Brother John!

    I am so distressed about this whole thing. I want the watchmen to know that I have listened to all you guys for a long time I spend much of my time listening to every and any bit of truth I can snatch up in these last days. I listened to H & H every night, three hours a night – that’s 15 hrs a week or ~1/3 of the time of a full-time job. I was praying that after the New Year there would be some sign of repentance, some sign of reconciliation. Instead we got 3 hrs of a lecture about how those of us who were concerned were just gossiping and we should be ashamed for Standing with Nathan, and we haven’t prayed and we don’t mention Jesus and on & on – you heard it.

    I am begging Steve and Pastor Langford for an apology too, but not only them – an apology from Doug and Joe Hagmann – not so much Joe as Doug though. This apology is not for me, all I ever wanted to hear was a GLIMMER of repentance; that would have been enough for me. You’re right, it is Nathan they need to apologize to.

    Again I want to say to Nathan Leal, thank you for caring about us enough to expose these lies and to take upon yourself this persecution! I have the utmost respect for you and have been praying for you!

    I have also been praying for the above parties that God will shine His light on the wrong that has been done here and then convict them to repent and make it right!

  14. Hi John, Thankful for you and your addressing this matter. Ted comes across intimidating and threatening just in his demeanor and the way that he talks on his shows. I think that the Hagmann’s were actually afraid to confront him during the show, but at this point, should have addressed this issue publically. Instead, Doug has doubled down! Listen to his show of 1/22 War on All Fronts part 2 where he gets mad and indignant at any who tries to describe what New Age is to him. I hope that I have referenced the right episode. I scanned it but cannot find it but I bet someone on here will. Love and blessings to you brother from South Carolina!

    • My wife and I actually listened to PART of that show. We knew INSTANTLY that what TB was talking about was new age, occultic heresy. However, what really blew us away, is the fact that the Hagmanns actually made statements to the effect that the information Broer was giving was life changing, amazing, revolutionary and wonderful. I never caught any sense that they were afraid of confronting TB. They actually embraced what he was saying with open arms. We have been praying for the Hagmanns every day, that they will see the truth! They are great guys at exposing what the NWO and the elites are up to. I hate to see them embrace heresy like they have. Part of it, in my opinion, is the fact that Broer is an advertiser on their website. Unfortunately, sometimes in the Christian community, MONEY is still a huge motivator…

  15. RE: “If you attack Israel, you support Satan and Islam.”
    Hi bro John, IMO the gov. of Israel is just another kingdom of this world, ruled by satan, and run by lost people. This does not diminish God’s work in restoring Jewish people to the land of Israel in order for Him to restore a remnant from among them, as the Lord used pagans, evil kings, and even Christ’s own Jewish brethren that rejected Him in furthering God’s Will.
    -the bottom line is we are not called to support any world kingdom as Jesus said “My kingdom is not of this world”, but we do seek to reach out to Jews and all people with the good news of salvation..
    -I thank God for your voice and ministry and wish we could fellowship..

    • Hi rory moore,

      I agree that the government of Israel is still within the kingdom of darkness. In fact, I have specifically warned many to not elevate the government of Israel to one of ‘holiness’.

      Having said that, God HAS been using the government of Israel.

      But, for those who attack Israel… I’m sorry, that is supporting Islam. Few – if any – of the criticisms against the government of Israel are accurate. And, it is a sin to participate in the villainous beat-down of Israel.

      Israel is being bullied, and Christians are supporting this ‘bullying’. How dare they!

      Please remember that I have an intimate knowledge of Israel. I have family living there. I lived there for 15 years, and go back often.

      Israel does not deserve being attacked.

      Furthermore, our attacks upon Israel obscure the more important work that God is doing in Israel. So, my position stands as accurate:

      “If you attack Israel, you support Satan and Islam.”

      It is the truth.

      My hope, Rory, is that you will not stand with Satan and Islam.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  16. Dear John,
    WOW, I am so impressed. You did a wonderful thing for the body of Christ and for the Lord. When the controversy first started I wrote to Nathan and told him to stand fast in the Lord, he did the right thing according to scripture. I also told him that the Hagmanns were wonderful men, but babes in Christ. Then prior to Steve ( whom I love in the Lord )went onto Hagmann I wrote to him and told him that Nathan did the right thing according to Matthew 18. But he and David were protecting Doug because he had his feelings hurt. Well, Doug is a babe in Christ and sometimes babe’s need their butts spanked. I hope Steve and David will repent as you suggested.

    As for Brohr, he was spouting filth from the dark side and I would not listen to him even before the controversy.

    Then Dave Hodges who is also a babe in Christ and lacks understanding called me a “minion” because I chose to stand with Nathan. Not me personally, but all who would side with Nathan.

    So, I am very grateful to you. I have great respect for you, and I feel this will be very instructive to the body.
    Thank you John
    Sandy McIntosh

  17. Dear John,

    How blessed I am for your intercession. We do not need to be “asked” to stand or speak on behalf of those who have been wronged; The Word tells us that it is our responsibility, our duty, period.

    I do believe I know some of the grief you’re feeling about all of this. More than once I had to choose to stay in a corrupted fellowship or leave. Both times my family and I were knit to many others in our church. Both times we resisted speaking out trying to believe the best and to keep the spirit of unity in the bonds of peace. Both times, such reluctance resulted in the flourishing of unconfessed and unrepented sin that ended up dividing the church. It is a horrible thing to be forced to choose sides between the obedient and unrepentant.

    To this day I see the damage done by those who coerced us out of the church by their flagrant and outrageous actions. We did what you and Nathan have done, went one-on-one, took two, brought it up before the whole congregation.

    Incredibly, the majority rallied around the unrepentant and was offended at those of us that were forced to speak of their deeds out loud. I lament not having taken it further and having the pastor, in once instance, removed. Then you consider what would be left? If those who rallied in support of the adulterer and abandoned the Truth had control of the church, is that a church?

    So we left.

    It felt like a divorce. All of those precious friendships shredded. My email lists that I used to share things, irrelevant, the church directory, useless. It was a death.

    In recent years I had discovered Doug and Joe, Steve Quayle and Pastor Langford, Dave Hodges, Nathan Leal, you and so many others I have grown to love and trust.
    You had all become my safe haven, my go-to. I scheduled my day around listening to the broadcasts and reading the websites. I had a new home, a new family of believers and now, without a mighty move of God on those who have wrongly attacked and accused Nathan, this Fellowship is over too.

    Thank you for doing what is honorable, and noble. Thank you for suffering for the cause of righteousness and His Name’s Sake. To all of those named above, I love you, I miss you, and I pray with all the sincerity I possess, as your sister in Christ, that you will choose to humble yourselves and offer the sincere fruit of repentance to Nathan. I pray you will not let Satan prevail in this heartbreaking situation.

  18. John,


    I haven’t read your entire article yet, (but as soon as I finish this comment I will) but wanted to immediately give thanks to Our Lord Jesus Christ and you. I heard the Hagmann shows with Ted Broer (and was utterly shocked and disturbed) and with David Lankford and Steve Quayle (whom I respect) (and was again shocked and disturbed) along with Nathan’s mp3 responding to this heresy. I also listened to Ted’s arrogant and disrespectful response – both on his own radio show and Dave Hodges’ radio show. I immediately sent Nathan a couple of emails supporting him and his position.

    I have followed Nathan for nearly two years now and find him to be an honest, humble person who loves the Lord and has every good intention to feed the sheep. I also support him financially when possible.

    When Ted Broer made those outrageous statements on the Hagmann show, I was shocked that neither Doug nor Joe challenged him. That aside, I was further shocked by the statements of Pastor Lankford and Steve. Like you, I feel they both love the Lord. But Nathan is not the offender in this.

    I have been praying for Nathan and his family.

    I have also been praying that all those involved will do their homework and see their error – the error that Nathan justly called out, and did so in a biblical manner. This matter – and the injustice to Nathan – have been on my heart since it happened and I pray fervently about it.

    Please forgive me if this is a bit scattered but it is done in haste. Once again, THANK YOU!

    God Bless you, John.

    Your sister in Jesus Christ


  19. Dear brother, please go to this link from Steve Quayle’s site concerning a dream pastor David Langford just had.

    I’m very saddened by it, as it doesn’t look like a spirit of repentance is coming at this time.
    Can a person who has fasted for many days hear from Satan, rather than God? The Lord is not the author of confusion and would never give opposing words about the same thing.

    I have been a born again, spirit filled, believer in Lord Jesus for 40 years. This is so disheartening, and confusing. I’ve prayed about this mess since it started – even to the point of neglecting to pray for other’s needs. I have, as we all do, prayer requests from friends, unsaved family members, all sorts of things that need to be taken care of in prayer, but I can’t seem to get this mess out of my mind and heart. I am so disappointed in these men who I once thought more highly of than I ought! I feel that you, Nathan Leal, Benjamin Baruch, and very few others, can be trusted at this time to deliver a true word from the Lord. Lord Jesus is our shepherd and he is the one we need to rely on, as he will never lead us astray, but the Lord has appointed watchmen for such a time as this, so I can’t discount everyone. I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

    I thank you for standing for the plain truth, as written in the Word of God, and not backing down, even though you could have turned and looked the other way. Where are the mighty men of God? It would seem that you are one of them! This “little league” mess, as David Langford refers to it, is really not about Nathan Leal, but about following the simple words of God, as written in the Holy Bible. If we are not going to follow the word of God – why call ourselves Christian? I am always blessed when you are on the Hagmann show. I no longer listen to any of the shows, but if you are ever on again, I will tune in. May Lord Jesus bless you and your dear ones. Thank you!!! Dolores

    • Hi Dolores,

      This is the second time that this link has been pointed out, and it grieves me too. Those snakes are not you and I.

      A true snake would never faithfully point out your sins, in hope that you will walk rightly with the Lord.

      Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

      – Proverbs 27:6

      May you never think of me more highly than I ought to be.

      May we all hear the words ‘Well Done’ by our Lord and Savior, when this life is over.

      Thank you for that wonderful and heartfelt comment, Dolores. Keep up the good work.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

    • YES!… satan is capable of giving you dreams…. i have received many dreams from god… personal and prophetic…..satan heard me relating these dreams to people….and then i received two a very scary dream…in it i was tortured….and i thought it was a warning from god. it caused me to be in fear and very paranoid….. i went through ALOT over it… then it was revealed to me it was from satan…. i felt so foolish…. i didn’t know he was capable of that. langfords dream i believe was from satan…

    • Hmmmmm, several comments if that is OK?
      Because I choose to be obedient to the word of God, Now I am A snake? Per Mr. Lankford, I don’t think so.
      Wasn’t it the Pharisees that made sure everyone knew they were fasting, and did not Jesus tell us to wash our face, put on a big smile and don’t tell anyone? “Verily I tell you he has his reward.”

      I think the scripture says that pride goeth before the fall. I myself have gone through the fire, and believe me it hurts a lot. Jesus will do whatever he must do to bring his boys to repentance. And, Steve and David are His boys.

      Hagmann’s response was to put Brohr back on last night. Well Ok
      They can dance with Brohr and the three Mikes…..I will choose not to.
      By the way…All the comments I have read here are wonderful.

  20. Wow. God bless you for your courage and integrity, and all the work you’ve put into straightening out a terrible mess and revealing truth. It was not easy, and it took guts. The body of Christ needs more of that. I’ve seen variations on this theme several times, sometimes firsthand, and nothing helps the evildoers continue like those who look the other way and say we mustn’t judge. Satan gets so much mileage out of that it’s unreal. Seeking out the truth of a matter, and telling it, is not judging. Funny how the enemy likes to put that little spin on it.

    In the case of those who say they’ve asked for and received forgiveness, let us not overlook the fact that you have to repent in order to sincerely seek forgiveness, and if repentance is sincere, the sinner will turn away from the sin; and if it continues to ensnare him, he will do everything possible to avoid exposure to it so he will not be tempted again. God is no fool, but some of these snakes act like He is.

    Once again I must say we need to recognize the sociopaths active in the body of Christ. Pathological liars usually do not even feel embarrassment when caught in their lies, they just spin more lies to “explain” the discrepancies they’ve been caught in. Looking at the history you’ve uncovered here, there is no evidence of conscience, remorse, integrity, honesty, or any effort worthy of the name to make sincere reparations and change of behavior. Looks to me like all he does is go from one scam to another, looking for more suckers.

    • A few more points to the we’re-not-supposed-to-judge crowd: yes we are, by God-given criteria. Genuine love wishes the best for a person, and how is it best to enable their wrongdoing such that they can keep repeating it for the rest of their lives and wind up in hell?? We always need the guidance of the Holy Spirit, those in authority most of all, to curb human tendencies that stray from the absolutely correct. There is such a thing as human error, to be sure. But with faith and bible knowledge and yielding to the Holy Spirit, we can do much better than look the other way and hope it disappears. It won’t. The bible gives us successive steps to deal with this, and if all of them fail, we are to avoid those people. They have free will after all, and if they would rather continue in their deception – including the deception of claiming to have reformed when they have not – they are best avoided. How different do you think our lives would be if Eve had avoided the serpent instead of continuing to listen to him? Exactly. And that is exactly why the Word of God tells us to avoid these types.

      It kind of makes me want to barf when I hear people – none of whom know their bible very well – go on and on about how Jesus was all about love, unconditional love, all-forgiving love. Repentance is key. Jesus said not to throw your pearls before swine, which is a pretty clear acknowledgement that some people are “swine”. That is not a politically correct statement, but it is straight out of Our Lord’s mouth. He also told certain people that their true father was not Abraham, but the devil. And He called them out on their hypocrisy, saying that they may appear whitewashed on the outside, like tombs, but inwardly were full of corruption. He grieved over the damage done to His naive, trusting sheep by these types. So let us take His warnings seriously.

      • Hi DRG,

        To those who call us not to judge, I respond with:

        Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

        – John 7:24

        We ARE to judge. It is utter foolishness to withhold judgment when someone’s sin cries out for it.

        Thank you, DRG. Excellent comment, as always.

        Yours in Christ,

        John Little

  21. So, I guess I’m going to go ahead and chime in. I don’t belong to any forums, or have a dog in the hunt.

    That said, I have had a check in my spirit about SQ’s stuff for a long time, and this situation, which I’ve been following, has confirmed that for me. He is probably a brother, it isn’t up to me to judge, and if so, God will sort it out, but in MY spirit, I feel something is off and I need to stay away from now on. Same with DL, who I never really listened to except in this situation.

    I doubt that they would be experiencing blow back if they had stayed out of it and not spent 3 hours on H&H discussing “it” in oblique, but sometimes obvious, and often unkind comments. It was painful to listen to.

    So I am actually grateful that through this, I can peacefully put aside some sites I was going to in the past that I won’t be going to in the future.

    There is a super over abundance of “watchmen” websites, Youtubes, etc. And I would wager to say that the majority are a waste of time. While I haven’t yet listened to Nathan’s part 2 on “What is a Watchman” (part 1 was excellent), I would say a watchman is someone who warns people to get right with God. They see trouble coming, and they warn the WICKED to get right with God, while at the same time, warning believers to press in, examine themselves. I don’t think a watchman is someone who is posting links to every bad thing they can find – and a lot of that, speculation. They aren’t selling or buying.

    There is ONE reliable guide to what is ahead: God’s Word.

    My heart goes out to Karon Ruiz (commenting in a previous article about all this), who seems pretty overwhelmed by all these “watchmen” websites to the point of feeling agitated, overloaded, and even wondering if they are saved.

    If it leaves you fearful, and agitated, and wanting to crawl into a hole somewhere, that is NOT the Spirit of the Lord. That is the enemy sowing fear and discouragement (The lost should feel fear. Believers don’t need to). I’ve had to learn this the hard way. When it’s from the Lord, you will feel convicted, but not condemned; hopeful (even in dire circumstances) not hopeless; comforted, not tripped up by works-righteousness. You will feel closer to the Lord, not an outcast or like you can’t measure up. And His Spirit will bear witness.

    So limit yourself to one or two sites to get some news/commentary (this one seems like a good one, haven’t spent much time here yet) and spend the rest of your time in God’s Word. We already know the general gist of things – how it’s going- without needing to know every sordid possibility.

    • Hi CJC,

      I believe that Steve is a brother in Christ, due to profession of faith, his willingness to help others and his diligence in trying to inform others of what is happening.

      Is he perfect in his Christian walk?

      No. I’ve seen flaws in some of what he does and says, and those flaws were emphasized in the case above. But, I do not believe that flaws like this will disqualify you from being a brother-in-Christ. Unfortunately, they will lead you to judgment from God, and I would love to spare him from what is coming. These flaws will eventually be his undoing.

      For myself, I am concerned about my own flaws. So, my hope is that I will always be willing to listen when others point them out.

      As for the plethora self-professed ‘watchmen’, I am very cynical about most of them. I am most concerned about the ‘Patriot Preppers’ and the Nazi sympathizers that are growing in number. There is a lot of evil that is cloaked in ‘robes of righteousness’.

      I’m not sure whether I could be called a ‘Watchman’. If I am, it is only because I am covering one small part of ‘the wall’. As for the duties of the watchman, I agree that spiritual should always be the most important, but they are not confined to the spiritual.

      There are a number of threats to the Body of Christ that are physical, and there is a profound need to warn our brothers and sisters of those physical threats, threats that could take lives and livelihood – and threaten our ability to serve God. After all, you cannot serve God when you’re dead.

      Thank you, CJC. Great comment.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  22. Thank you for this John… and I pray for you and your situation in Taiwan.

    I have found myself drawn to pray for everyone involved in this controversy… however my heart and pleadings tend to gravitate towards David and Steve.

    I too love and respect these brothers and like many that agree with your points have been fed by them. This is why this is so difficult for all of us and there is clearly heightened emotion because it has become a type of civil war.

    However, they are clearly in the wrong backing this conference, taking lightly the heresy which was preached on the Hagmann platform (that did affect me and my family to backslide into attempting to reconcile mysticism back into our relationship with Jesus after just barely being rid of it!) and most importantly their attack on my friend Nathan Leal.

    I am a close follower of Nathan, have dialog with him and contribute to his ministry. It is his message that resonates the loudest out of anyone on H&H through the years, and most importantly the Lord used him to help me leave Mormonism and it’s version of New Age Mysticism.

    This is very personal to me because I feel like the actions Nathan took were God-inspired…

    …and I praise my God that is mindful of me and my family to use a pastor that I have personal connection with to confront an issue that was hurting my relationship with Him!

    As Nathan says in his response he felt a charge to guard against evil (given his God appointed position) by speaking out His truth. I was going to buy tickets to the conference after Christmas and he says that many he knew were going to do the same… so making the decision to leave the conference was time sensitive.

    I have no issue with how he handled it and undeserving of the criticism those involved with the conference have put on him.

    I found it interesting that in the dream section on Steve’s site today he shared a dream David had and interpreted it to his audience as the attack they were both experiencing from the “high spirited” emails:

    They were shown snakes entering David’s home and that the ammo they were using was too big and wrecking the place. They were shown that they needed to size down their ammo in order to get at the real issue.

    I believe your expose on 3 Mikes clearly shows us that he and the gravity of new age teachings not being confronted are the targets they kept missing and kept blasting away at the H&H body causing irreparable damage if they do not repent and make public reconciliation to Nathan.

    Truth be told John… Nathan should never have had to put himself out there like this. He is a valued contributor to the H&H report, but this platform is conditioned and reliant on these two to be the Watchmen of the Watchmen.

    H&H platform is their house… their home court.

    And given this home court advantage both David and Steve have made great use of it building many of us up and helping us to understand the scriptures. Many listeners say time and time again that they will not miss an episode where they are both on together.

    It seemed to me in their 3 hour tirade (that I could only stomach an hour of) that they were personally insulted, possibly felt shown up and threatened by Nathan taking on this role of weeding out lies amongst fellow watchmen… in their house.

    Their tone was if there was an issue… it should have been us handling it.

    Could this be pride? Are they taking credit for building the house the snakes are attacking and getting damaged?… or is it God’s house that He built and they are blowing it away in attempts to rid it of snakes? (David interpreted himself that he felt the damage to the house was a symbol for the body of Christ; they are the ones pulling the trigger and perhaps Steve will see this first and tell Pastor?)

    By the way… this is not “a little league mess” and yes Pastor is absolutely right that we had better prepare to be right with Him as the main event is upon us.

    However… the Lord did say that judgment would come upon His house first. So I have decided to keep my eye on the ball (to continue David’s baseball metaphor) as it’s the little league fundamentals that allows the big boys to “see the ball, hit the ball”.

    But there is an urgency in my prayers because I do not want this to be their “hit the rock twice instead of speaking to it as commanded” event.

    Why did Moses hit the rock? Out of rage and the build-up of having to fall on his face to God in order to deal with these tiresome people time and time again. Moses was the meekest man ever… but even he was susceptible to this sin given it was a build-up of past events/results.

    I think we have all heard Steve’s tone change and the ranting begin when he describes the many emails he gets from listeners in the body that criticize him in any way. (That upon being criticized and called a kook for 40 years by the secular world will wear anybody down…)

    So did the emails contribute to their reaction? Compounded by seeing a completely beaten down Doug and Joe..

    Is God showing Pastor Lankford 14 days (7+7) into his 21 day fast (7+7+7) some correction? Or is He saying keep firing away and doing what you are doing because your current course of action is working?

    What’s the big deal with Moses hitting the rock instead of speaking to it anyways? Seems that it was pretty important to the Lord, and I fear that both Steve and Pastor are looking for this issue to just go away as it is “merely divisive” and Nathan should take their 3 hour rebuke in stride.

    However, from what I understand hitting the rock represented Jesus being smitten, and speaking to the rock would have represented the outpouring of the Holy Ghost; most think the Lord was too harsh on Moses but this was his consequence of sin (that John so eloquently explained) which he owned up to without complaint.

    So taking lightly things that the Lord God completely abhors such as mysticism… is falling down on the job. Strongly rebuking the man who is following God and then expecting the H&H listeners to move on and come together for a conference without that man… requires attention to brought on them and repentance on their part.

    I honestly feel these brothers need us (those that support Nathan) to plead to God to intercede on a supernatural level and we should not try and “convince” them through emails. John has articulated our case as clearly as anybody can and it is on us to back him up with fervent prayer… because I know they would do this for us.

    Let us all fall on our faces and ask God to bless us with discernment, forgiveness and to act in love.

    In Jesus always,

    – Brandon Douglas

    P.S. Please feel free to edit this any way you like John… I’m way over the 300 word count but the words just kept coming!

  23. Ok, I’m done with the Hags, Q (twerps), Lanks, Podge, and …..waiting to see how many others are false brethren. I let these false ones speak into my life their falsehoods for 4 years. I just feel so deceived. I will recover and forgive them (blinded by Lucuferian Pride). Sucks to be them where they are spiritually at the judgement seat of Christ. Just saying. I know, but by the grace of God…..

    Thank you John for trying. Your fruit is that of a man who walks humbly before the Lord Jesus. You probably won’t be invited to any more of the “watchman” circus shows anymore. From what I just witnessed…, they are twisted, I mean twisted. Wow, delusional!!! I understand If you delete this, but wow!!! Flabbergasted.

    Grateful and thankful for your efforts, plus the efforts of all the Godly breathern who have been interceding on behalf of Nathan, Leahz, Barach, and most importantly the TRUTH. The light of your efforts reveled how dark the darkness is. These truly are lawless and Ubiquously dark times. Deeper understanding of Lucifer appearing as an angel of light and deceiving even the elect.
    God bless and keep you under His wings Mr. John Little.


    • Hi Blaine Bosserman,

      Yes, Doug went to a Jesuit seminary. But, you are not required to take the Jesuit oath upon graduation, unless you are inducted into the Jesuit ORDER.

      Doug is NOT a Jesuit priest.

      Furthermore, Doug was NOT saved when he went to that Jesuit seminary. In fact, if he was a secret Jesuit, he would not be telling ANYONE that he went to a Jesuit seminary.

      Let us not go down such a twisted path. Doug is sincere. He’s also sincerely wrong in the issue that I’m outlining above.

      Thank you, Blaine.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  24. jOHN,

    Well done! I’m sorry it has all come to this but unfortunatelly when we come across heresy we have to call it what it is, we can not let others who may not be spiritually strong think this is truth.



  25. I just cannot believe the Hagman’s have Ted on again & will continue to do so–they just lost one listener! ME!!!! Thanks for all the info John–God bless U……

  26. I haven’t read the entire article yet, but wanted to let you know that Ted Broer, yes Ted Broer!! is on the Hagnann Report tonight…live right now. It’s almost surreal that Doug and Joe are continuing their relationship with him. Shame on both of you.

    Also, I want to say to them and anyone else involved like SQ or DL that I feel horribly betrayed. I learned from all of YOU, that as true Christians, we cannot compromise for the sake of a relationship. Many times, SQ, you said you ended fellowship with people who did not live by the Word of God. And now you expect us sheep to continue to listen to and support your ministries when we are supporting Nathan and his attempt to call out a heretic.

    Shame on all of you for betraying all of who’ve supported you financially and through prayer and other support.

    My prayer is that you will repent and make a public apology to everyone who understands the truth of the matter.

    Thank you John for allowing me to verbalize my annoyance over this situation, and I’m sorry if this was too strongly worded.

  27. Addendum:

    One of the youtube chat moderators has already said that anyone who insults the “guest” will be removed from the chatroom. So if you want to make your opinion known, don’t try it tonight! Never mind that they allow anyone to disparage Stan Deyo for his opinion on the rapture. I guess Ted is the golden boy.

  28. I will probably never get all the intricacies of this episode. I just know when the pastor and Quayle went on the hagmann show is the first I’d heard of this. I was quite frankly confused and mad they aired dirty laundry on the show. And I’m sure as you are that Langford and Quayle are above reproach and there are things I don’t yet understand. Now much as Quayle said he didn’t get the move of the holy ghost to attend this conference: I was very much excited to have an opportunity to be in the presence of these ppl. But I also asked God to show me should I go. And I’m very young in the religion, but I was led not to attend. Much to my dismay, and now it’s becoming very clear. God is no respector of persons. Your 3 Mikes is blowin this wide apart. Have you heard about Rebekah Roth that was also on hagmann? As sheila says if all their guests were perfect there wouldn’t be a show. Something to that effect. Now I think that Ted is just mislead, I think he strives to do the right thing. You and Nathan are true men of God. I strive for that.

  29. I turned off the Broer episode of Hagmanns after a few minutes because it made me quite uncomfortable. Later I heard Mr. Leal dropped out of the conference because of Dr Broers teaching. I was glad he did. But until today, I had no idea how big of a problem this had become.
    Thank you for providing the links to hear the comments from each party.
    We already have Chrislam etc. We certainly don’t need to be joining with new age teaching now. We should be standing with each other not with false teaching.
    It breaks my heart there is so much vitriol among what I thought were Christian people.
    PS. Very much appreciate your newsletter each week. Thanks for all your hard work. Would love a podcast! (In all your spare time of course……)

  30. John

    Thank you for today’s omega shock letter. I really appreciated having all the facts stated and being able to listen to Nathan tell his side of the story with the replays of the segments that he was unhappy with. I too agree with him and have told Doug & Joe Hagmann this but with no answer from them.

    What absolutely got to me was Dave Hodges backing of Ted Broer. The man is usually such a good researcher into the truth but the same could be said of Doug & Joe so it is so disheartening to have that reaction from them and so out of character of Dave, I thought!

    I enjoyed listening to the Hagmann show but now feel so disillusioned as their show is no longer one of honesty and integrity. The fearful part of the whole thing is that the Lord is bringing judgement onto the christian church in the States as we speak. They need to repent in sackcloth and ashes quickly before the Angel passes over the homes of those that the Lord is going to protect from disaster.

    My heart is weeping for them and I will now pray that they receive your letter and actually read it and that the Holy Spirit can bring discernment upon them. Oh Satan is so wily, he knows his time is short and how better to divide the watchmen than to bring sin among them and how better to destroy the church than deceiving the watchmen. I so pray that their hearts aren’t hardened. How the Lord must be weeping !

    By the way I had already heard of and possibly listened to Ted Broer on health summits whilst trying to sort out my health issues a couple of years back and I didn’t take to him then, I found him brash and new age in his belief system. There were a couple of other alternative christian practitioners also that I also felt were not walking truthfully to the Scriptures either so unsigned from them as well.

    So when I first heard him on the Hagmann show thought that he must have changed his beliefs but that night I heard him on the Hagmann show I knew that he hadn’t, I was just shocked that Doug couldn’t see through it. Or didn’t go and research it for himself. The crunch came when I heard Ted denying what he said and meant as it was all recorded. So glad Nathan recorded it all in one easy hour of listening so that it is all together.

    Ted is man with forked tongue! I also did not appreciate his comments about us, the listeners. If I lived in America, I would have it out with the lot of them in person but I don’t, I live in Australia. So I shall leave it to the Holy Spirit.


  31. Hi John,

    Thank you for your article today on the “Three Mikes.”

    I followed the Broer-Leal situation on Nathan Leal’s Watchman’s Cry forum. I am not a member but the forum is read-only to non-members. Nathan’s wife Donna is the forum’s moderator and frequent poster as well. She mentioned that they received the threat of a lawsuit from Doug Hagmann for Nathan using clips from Doug’s show in Nathan’s audio message. It’s completely a fair use situation and I have lost a lot of respect for that and because Doug did not stop Ted right on the show and ask him to clarify his New Age utterings.

    I was sitting on the fence about going to the conference after the Broer-Leal situation. Now no longer sitting on the fence. Only $50 in at this point but you have saved me $600 for hotel and meals.

    No need to reply. Thanks again for your investigation!

    Doug Corbin
    Austin, Texas

  32. Thank you for being courageous enough to tackle this, John. I had a “spiritual gag reflex” to Ted Broer when I heard him on H&H. Because I had come to trust H&H, and Steve Quayle, I had very much wanted to attend the White Stone conference in Bozeman last summer, but was prevented from it. Now I’m glad. I appreciate Nathan Leal’s clear stand, and your doing the homework to chase it all down. Personally I’ve gone through much heartbreak and isolation because of my glitching at adultery, drunkenness, heresy, and sin amongst those who call themselves brothers. I have had the same accusation of being on the side of the Accuser; and have been ostracized for “causing division”. Ironic 🙂 I just slogged through the Dave Hodges show with Ted Broer, and then went to look up chakra in Wikipedia. You have to dig pretty deep to find a definition that’s NOT new age or Hindu, besides all the very obviously UNscientific illustrations… Heretics count on people being too intimidated at their high-sounding sophism, or too ignorant of Scripture. Thank you for being a plumb line and a watchman.

  33. Hello John… long time reader… first time comment. Thank You for supporting Nathan and for clearing up my confusion on Ted Broer’s interview on Hagmann and Hagmann Report. I listened to that message live and it left me confused to the point that I spoke with a trusted friend about it the next day, asking him to listen to it and let me know what he thought about it. It did not settle well in my spirit when I heard it. After listening to Nathan’s disclosure I have no doubt in my mind as to the truth. Had I not read your email I would have remained in confusion.
    Needless to say, I am disappointed in the Hagmanns, SQ and David Langford for their short shortsightedness and response to the situation. I respect and appreciate them all and will email them to ask them to reconsider their responses.
    You and Your wife are in my prayers.
    God Bless You and Yours

  34. John,

    I did not know who Nathan Leal was before this situation came up. After reading the favorable comments from your readers, I looked him up and found his explanation before it was taken down. I was impressed with his humility and his displeasure in taking the actions he felt necessary. I did listen to the Hagmann show with Ted Broer and appreciate Mr. leal standing up against the new age implications that Ted was promoting.

    I skipped through the 3 hour attack show with Pastor Lankford and Steve Quayle. While I know it is an emotionally charged issue right now, they both came across … to me at least … as arrogant and mean spirited. Quoting Bible verse after Bible verse, obviously not applying any of them to themselves.

    One verse they may have missed – “…, let me take the speck out of your eye, when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye”.

    You may rebuke me for this, but I have lost some respect for the Hagmanns, Pastor Lankford and Steve Quayle. Perhaps it’s just disappointment. But I really don’t want to listen to them right now. Having said that, i will try to heed the verse quoted above.

    Thanks for your faithfulness.

  35. Brother John, as usual, you have allowed the Spirit of God to lead you. Am praying for you and your wife durring these spiritual battles. And of course for repentance and reconciliation of the brethren. We saw the battle coming. But did not heed the warning. Not speaking of you. But of many… These participants that caused so much pain for not only Nathan and his wife, but for those of us who were in support of all their ministries and have learned so much! These individuals spoke of the spiritual battle that would attack the saints through each other… Well over a year ago. See Tom Horns Book, Blood on the Alter. Not saying Horn is involved in this. Well!!! Love in Christ , Kris

  36. Sorry Brother John to write again! But I just went over to h&h to see if there was something worth listening to while I finish my night shift. We to my huge amazement, tonight’s guest was Ted Broer. I don’t have the stomach to listen. I am just amazed. Lord help us. In Christ, Kris

  37. Hi there John,
    thank you for your disclosure. I hope that this will get some people to rethink their former stance on Nathan.

    Anyway the whole New Age stuff is getting more and more into the christian remnant. Have you, for instance, looked into the “whole tones live” stuff that is being promoted on the Hagmann show every day?
    This is also a pretty blatant New Age practice in my eyes.
    Just found a interesting article on that subject:

    • I thought so too, about the “whole tones live” guest. When I looked into the bio of the whole tones guy, I didn’t notice any mention of Lord Jesus. Where, in the Bible, does Jesus say in order to reach him, or be healed by him, we need use musical tones? Wasn’t Lucifer, at one time, before pride took him down, “heaven’s musical director”? I couldn’t stomach listening to that show either. In fact, I won’t be listening to any more of their shows, unless John Little or Nathan Leal are guests. It would seem that neither Doug H or his son, Joe, have any discernment, as they seem willing to fall for anything but the truth!! It sickened me to discover that Ted Broer was a guest again! What are they thinking??

  38. John,
    I found this dream from pastor David L. to be self evident and evident to all.
    The question is; will the blind watchmen see what is there right in front of them. Are they listening or too busy defending their pride ?



    Why did you and Steve leave the safety of home and go to the place of snakes ?
    Why are you killing the snakes and not relying on the LORD to do so ?
    Flesh depends on bullets, the Spirit does not.

    Wake up, find humility and repent, haughty ones.

    Open rebuke is better than secret love.
    Proverbs 27:5

  39. Good Morning John
    Another great article again, Thank you!!!
    As I read your article The Spirit reminded me that we are in the Last days and Gods judgement beigins in the Body of Christ first, a time of seperation of the wheat and the tares.
    God knows whom his sheep are and who are not, there are those who are of his body while others make a claim that they are his!! We know them by their fruit.
    I had been a listener of those whom you talked about and out of all of them Nathan bared much good fruit.
    To come against a brother trying to warn the sheep of wolves in sheep clothing is what some are called to do today, now more then ever!!!!!!
    Many can quote scriptures and preach great messages, look at all the False preachers out their for an example, J.O. , C, D. R.W and the list goes on….
    The Lord knows that many pastors have destroyed his people, many men dont understand or ponder this truth, Only a small remnant, which God is now restoring to his true covenant, can recongnize that the pastors have deceived and destroyed the people of God.
    The Lords warns us to be aware of our neighbours and to not trust our brothers in the church,” for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.” The Lord is warning his remnant they are surrounded by brothers who will attempt to trip them and restrain them, these so called brothers also will talk and create scandle regarding his remnant.
    The Lord tells us all clearly that persecution of the true church shall first come,and the majority will be offended and betray one another.
    This matter was between Nathan and Ted, but it seemed others who thought themselves greater decided to jump in and accuse Nathan of division in which it was they who made it worsebut I think it was the Lord doing it, a seperation as you say.
    Does these media so called preachers not understand that they are held accountable for eveything they say and do on these shows, to all the followers who listen to them? they must stand before God and give account for all the words.
    We are to be followers of Christ and not followers of Man!!!!!!
    That was a hard lesson for me to learn, for I had been following H & H for 7 months I noticed over time in chat that it got to the point that the mods would ban those who spoke out if the guest was speaking in error. How can you bring a guest on and allow him to speak knowing it goes against the word of God and be banned for speaking out, too me thats called control..would Jesus just sit back and allow them to bring error to his children? I think not..
    As for Mike, well my decision not to attend the HTW was from the Lord, he told me to wait till January before my decision, and Now I understand why,I wanted to and see a move on God upon his people, its sad to say, but God isnt gonna show up, How can he?
    God is weeding out the good from the bad, from all those whom you talked about,I walked away from them, there are only three now whom I listen to the teaching (Nathan, Benjamin Baruck, and you Mr. John Little.)
    I know your fruit and it bears so much more, Speak to errors in love , not like a bunch of Pharisees thinking themselves much more greater becausee they have a website, or talk show , my mothers always told me, never put yourself on a pedistal, eventually you will fall and fall hard!!!
    Shalom Lillian

  40. Hi John,
    I just read the dreams and visions link posted on Steve Quayle’s page that one of your readers posted. Quote from David Lankford:


    I am surprised that he considers the false teaching of Ted Broer to be little league mess! It is predicted in the bible that people will try to adulterate God’s word. Ted has reached a higher platform to spread his lies because of appearing on the Hagmann’s show.

    Each and everyone of these men need to publicly renounce this new age doctrine because it will get worse not better. Many people think in life that ignoring and letting something pass is the high road way to address issues, well it is not.

    I would like to personally call for the cancellation of the Watchman’s conference in March now that we know about Three Mikes and make a stand for truth.

    Thanks to Nathan Leal for taking the courage and the heat generated by this controversy. It might be hard but after the fire the ashes of those who speak lies will lie at the feet of God’s true watchmen.

    • Hi Kimberly,

      I’m afraid that I agree.

      I ache over this controversy, but ignoring it will leave the chief cause of it to grow and fester.

      I believe that the sin in our churches has been given room to grow because we treated it in the same fashion that we have been treating this.

      Thank you, Kimberly. Excellent comment.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  41. I found yesterday an article about Nathan who supposedly stole the information about the occult significance of the super bowl ceremony and claiming to be his.Here is the link.

    If you could decipher this mystery it would be great for everybody who is following this issue.The author of this article had also a lot of conflicts with the Hagmanns and Steve Quayle .I read about it and if you want to research this you can find articles about it.

    I am curious if you knew about this.Thanks for everything you do.It’s a blessing for us.

    • Hi CRISTINA,

      I did know about it.

      I have not brought it to Nathan Leal’s attention, for clarification. Nathan was already dealing with quite enough hurt, already.

      Michael Erevna seems to believe that lots of people are stealing from his ideas. It seems like he accuses more than Nathan Leal about this. Furthermore, Erevna (not his real name) unleashes quite a bit of bitterness in his posts. Some of it is warranted, but the overall tone of his site is troubling.

      In the end, Michael Erevna’s accusations do not have the feel of truth to me. Nathan does not seem like the kind of person to deliberately do what Erevna accuses him of.

      We are all capable of sin. Nathan is capable of sin. I certainly am, as well.

      But, I am not ready to accept Erevna’s claims without better evidence – especially, since those claims do not fit Nathan’s character. (And, why would Nathan do that, anyway?)

      Thank you for raising that, Cristina.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      PS. Sorry about taking so long to get to this comment. It wound up in the spam folder.

      • John, I’m pretty sure Erevna also goes by pseudonyms..which should be a red flag. I believe the pseudonym was Kirk McLeod. He was tied in with Marinka Peschmann with all kinds of assaults on the brethren. That is an issue unto itself. I also want to bring up the watchman meeting a few years back that Rick Wiles hosted. Shannon Davis “Omegaman” attacked Wiles, Quayle, Leal, etc about fleeing Babylon statements–all of which had to be sorted and repented about. There is too much pride among many of these men–Quayle went on to Shannon’s show and accepted Shannon’s sincere apology. Maybe Steve should or will be man, and Brother enough to do the same for Nathan. Thank you, John! Keep up teh great work in Christ Jesus.

        • Hi David Barker,

          Hmmmm… Kirk McLeod. That’s definitely a pseudonym, and I just did a check. He even admits that’s him. Interesting.

          Yeah. Lots of bitterness there.

          I remember something about that kerfuffle with Shannon Davis. I too hope that Steve and David will come to their senses and realize the truth of what they have done.

          Either that, or come forward with information that adequately explains their beat-down of Nathan. From my point of view, the punishment did NOT fit the ‘crime’.

          Thank you, David. Great points.

          Yours in Christ,

          John Little

  42. Greetings, This whole article is a true lesson and example to the Body of Christ. I knew something was going on and heard the attack. I didnt realize until the day you posted what actually happened. Thank You. I have a friend in Dallas who gave me a ticket for the “Watchmen Conferance” over Christmas when this was all unfolding. I was excited about it being sorta new to the “watchmen/Hagmann fold. Now Im not so sure. I also just yesterday started doing some credibility checks on ANP and found them wanting and lacking desperately and wondered why someone would promote them so heavy if they were credible. I think I have my answer and dont think Ill be going to the conference after learning of this article I checked the Hagmann show and low and behold Ted Broer is on the very same day you release your article and I had never heard of Kerr before. I was doing my due diligence checking sources and credibilty and now find the Hagmann’ on my watch list. I guess I am now watching the watchers. Gee wiz what a mess they made.

    Proverbs 27:17
    Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

    • Hi Mark,

      This is the problem with deception. It can infect the best of us and tarnish our ability to serve God.

      I believe that the Hagmanns have good intentions, and that they will see the truth eventually.

      Thank you, Mark. Keep testing ‘the watchmen’.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  43. John,
    The night before this Shock Letter came out, my best friend and I were reading 1 John. It talked plainly about how we are to love our brothers and sisters in Christ. Then early Fri. morning we read your letter. The contents broke our hearts, and we have been praying ever since that the Holy Spirit will bring reconciliation between all the parties involved. One of the things you wrote at the end of your letter seemed to confirm what we had read in 1 John–“We must only stand for what is right… IN LOVE. Remember that if we do not act in love, we sin.”
    We have been faithful listeners to H&H and SQ and others for the last five years. Right now, we are asking for God’s wisdom and may. as the Lord leads us, need to take a break from those sources. Because of our current situation and not being able to be part of a church fellowship, we felt we were connected with our brothers and sisters in Christ through people like H&H, Steve, Pastor Langford, Dave Hodges, Nathan Leal and Paul McGuire. It grieves us that all of this has caused such division in the fellowship of believers.
    Praying for you and your wife during these hard times. We want you to know that you have our support!!

    • Hi Louise and Colleen,

      Jesus said:

      For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

      – Matthew 18:20

      The fact that the two of you are gathering together in the name of Christ… well …you have Jesus in the midst, with you.

      As for H&H, Steve, David Lankford, Hodges, etc. seek the Lord’s direction. The most important thing is that you are reading your Bible. Nothing that any of us can say will ever compare to THAT.

      I believe that H&H et al, have been acting out of sincere belief that they are right. Of course, I have the experience of being sincerely wrong, so I know that sincerity is not nearly enough.

      For all of us, this is a lesson in the need for a discerning spirit. We must all listen for the ‘false note’ in anything that people tell you. That includes even myself.

      And, we must allow others to show us our mistakes or what we are missing. I have come to value the input of Omega Shock readers, and I appreciate the input that you have given. I am just sorry that it has been so difficult to answer private email.

      God bless you, Louise and Colleen. May God guide you and keep you in the days ahead.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  44. John, I have one last comment on this only because this one disturbs me greatly!

    This controversy has bled into yet another platform that I love dearly and to yet another leader that I highly esteem, as I did Steve Quayle, Pastor Lankford, and Joe & Doug Hagmann. This time it’s from Tom Horn, whom I have especially esteemed as a grandfather figure and even as a Santa Claus (in the positive sense of Santa – jolly old elf, fond memories of child hood, etc.)

    In his article For Whom the Baal Trolls – – , Dr. Horn offers the following on how we are to deal with matters with our brethren:
    These verses teach us that if we perceive a brother or sister as falling into error, we are to:
    1. Go to him or her PRIVATELY in a spirit of humility and redemption.
    2. If those we approach will not receive our advice, we go to the elders of the church PRIVATELY and share our concern.
    3. If the elders believe the issue is legitimate, they go to the person PRIVATELY in hopes of restoring him or her.
    4. If the person still refuses council, the church is to have nothing more to do with him or her.

    So I looked up the verses he cited, in my Red Letter King James Version of the Bible and they are as follows:

    Matthew 18:15-17King James Version (KJV)
    15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
    16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
    17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

    It does NOT say:
    5. If the elders believe the issue is legitimate, they go to the person PRIVATELY in hopes of restoring him or her.
    6. If the person still refuses council, the church is to have nothing more to do with him or her.

    It says Take it to the church as I believe Nathan did since we are of sorts an online church

    I am so greatly disturbed about this. I prayed again about it last night and Jesus said to let him handle it and for me not to worry about it anymore. So I am making this last comment on the matter. I just wanted to hear your thoughts on this and if you believe this is being twisted or could it be interpreted this way? Again I am so confused by the reactions of these men I have held in such great esteem!

    Thanks again!

    • Hi Melissa C.,

      I am not sure that Tom Horn is weighing in on this issue specifically. It seems to me that his focus is on those who are blasting everyone in a spirit of harshness, with the goal of tearing down the ministries of others. I believe that a disinterested reader would not label Nathan Leal, or myself in this.

      However, when it comes to dealing with sin among the leadership of the Body of Christ, I believe that the proper text is found in 1 Timothy 5:

      Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

      – 1 Timothy 5:20

      So, while I agree that there is a need for private communication, which Nathan and I have engaged in, the truth should not be sacrificed upon the alter of unity. The sins of the leadership must be known to all.

      (BTW, Ephesians 4 is a great chapter on unity.)

      I believe that we are all at different stages in our realization of what is true, and what is not. Just as I did not have the whole picture, until I saw ‘Three Mikes’, so will others not have the whole picture until they see other pieces of the puzzle.

      I respect Tom Horn greatly, and I think that his article is valuable for those trying to understand the truth of this matter. Eventually, people will figure this out, but it takes time.

      Your passionate defense the truth in this matter is a good thing, Melissa. May we all love the truth with such esteem.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  45. Hello John,

    I posted a comment earlier that I don’t see, so I hope this one makes its way to you. If you didn’t want to post it for some reason, please let me know.

    I want to tell you that your research on “three Mikes” was a real eye-opener regarding this mess. You did a great job in searching out the truth about it, no doubt with Holy Spirit help. We need to know what the background of this issue is, and I think you have presented it very, very well. You have truly exposed a huckster, and hopefully he will think “three” times before he inserts himself into an event like this in the future.

    I am so perplexed! There must be some deceitful spirit that has sought to destroy this group of believers.

    Also, I’m confused as to why Lynn Leahz and Benjamin Baruch aren’t speaking out in support of Nathan. It’s very surprising that they are letting Nathan take the heat for everything.

    You have been a righteous, sane voice in this matter, and I want to thank you for the time and effort you took upon yourself. My prayers are going out to you as well as the other players that this can be made right.

    I feel a sadness that’s hard to explain…I spent so much of my time with the Hagmann’s and I still don’t know if I should continue to listen.

    God Bless you!

    • Hi Angel,

      You have left some excellent comments, and I am sorry that it has taken me so long to get to them. I’m afraid that the spiritual storm occurring here in Taiwan has made it difficult for me to deal with my responsibilities here on Omega Shock.

      As for why Lynn Leahz and Benjamin Baruch have not weighed in on this issue, it is hard to say. However, one of those two DID reach out to me and give their side of the story. I will not say which one.

      God is at work in the Body of Christ. It is better for me, a person without direct connections to those involved, to talk about this. No one can claim that I am acting out of false motives, because I receive no benefit either way. (In fact, just the opposite!) And, it may be that God has wanted Lynn and Benjamin to stay silent. You will notice that Nathan took down all of his articles dealing with the issue. I suspect that all of that was appropriate.

      Suffice it to say, that we all have our place and our work.

      We also have our weaknesses. I pray that my weaknesses are never an affliction to our brothers and sisters. And, I hope that all of you will continue to hold me accountable, and that I will listen when you do.

      Thank you, Angel. You’ve been leaving great comments.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  46. Have you tried to log onto Nathan’s website? Very odd… it’s been down for two days now?.

    Something’s not right, and I hope he’s ok!

  47. Hi John,

    This is purely my observation but indeed I think that you have exposed something deeper. Nathan wanted to do the right thing by bringing to light an erroneous non Christian teaching. It would appear that Nathan has “trodden on some toes” so to speak. What should have been a relatively straight forward correcting process (with brethren who stand together according to one purpose) has become a deeply mired field of conflict within the Christian community. Why is this?

    Reading and listening to all the relevant material related to this situation with Nathan and Ted I see that it has expanded to the Hagmanns, Steve Quayle, David Langford and the “3 Mikes”. What Nathan has exposed is something that resonates with your previous article on “Cognitive Dissonance”. You point out that when people will not embrace the truth they are left with cognitive dissonance. This has been evident from the “fumbling” attempts by folk in the Christian community to try and deal with this and keep other certain folk “happy”. Meanwhile Nathan gets victimized for exposing the truth. My suspicion is that he has been seen as the easiest one to target as the scapegoat in this situation.

    (I will to try and keep this brief and to the point) I am aware that there is much that we have not heard in the public arena about this situation; however certain things are starting to stand out. There is a web of deceit at work here and a spider (not Ted) in the middle of it. Nathan kicked the web. At this point I would like to bring another word into this situation for people to consider and that is “Narcissism”. Narcissists are self serving individuals whose lives are built on a false self image. They are charming, manipulative and hate the truth. They employ others who will either willingly or unwillingly do the narcissists dirty work so the narcissist may remain unsoiled by the conflict they create. They are also bullies. Oh yes not to forget they love money, shiny objects, gold, silver and people if they have some value to the narcissist.

    I suspect John that you have tangled with these individuals in your life judging by some of your comments. I am very personally acquainted with Narcissism and the damage it does and I see it at work here. There is a wonderful piece of scripture which describes this serious disorder of personality written around 2000 years ago for just these very times. 2 Timothy 3:1-9.( I have to say that in some ways this situation has been a blessing as it has highlighted our deficiencies and what we need to do to improve as Christians.

    May Jesus bless you and your wife John and my prayers are out there for all involved in this situation that God will be glorified.

    Matt from New Zealand.

    P.s Carolyn Hamlett says that satan is the poster boy for Narcissism, (say no more LOL).

  48. Yeah, it sure likes somebody was trying to sneak in “New Age” into Christian worship and that is WRONG!

    Christians have NO ASSOCIATION with DARKNESS!


  49. A part of me is inclined to sit and simply watch this mess continue to develop. I’m disappointed but not completely surprised. So I will make a few comments at risk of stepping on toes or putting my foot in my mouth, two things I specialize at. First I will stand way over there——–> because it appears John is about to experience the ten plagues or maybe even a holy ghost machine gun (Benny Hinn Quote).
    This all was a simple matter from the start. Ted Broer had elements in his teachings which were gnostic/new age. Not a big surprise to me since he is good friends with and likely attends the church of Rodney Howard Browne the laughing revival guy. The one connected to the Toronto Vineyard where they thought uncontrollably making animal sounds was evidence of God’s work in your life. I think Ted is probably a likeable guy and I would take medical direction from him. But in no way should he have been pushed, advanced or accepted as a teacher/elder/watchman in a congregation setting. He needed someone to sit down with him and set him straight on his doctrine. Hopefully that has occurred. What really bothered me was that others involved with this conference had not realized any of this. And none of them said anything about Mike one, two or three. And it is starting to sound like it may not have been an accident. I heard the 3 hours of the Hagmann show when Mr. Lankford and Quayle berated unnamed people all evening but as John has mentioned it was clear who was being referenced: Nathan Leal primarily and the ‘minions’ who took the same stand of which I’m one. I sat there all night thinking how wrong they were. I have issues with the ‘signs and wonders’ people because they are inclined toward extra biblical and bizarre interpretations. And now they or more specifically David Lankford is God’s anointed? Says who? It appears to me they are feeling very apostolic but not acting the part. The beloved apostle Peter was called out for the way he was acting amongst gentiles. Paul called him out in front of everyone. Peter, a real, not self appointed apostle did not react as these two.
    What does this mean for me? It means I now must check off some persons I can’t trust to listen to. Otherwise life goes on and the return of the Lord is ever nearer. And this is likely nothing compared to what is coming.

  50. John, after such extensive research, have any of the brethren been willing to discuss this with you? I am thinking of the two private investigators who seem to be the type of people who would be reasonable and truth-seeking. See? I didn’t mention any names.

    Have you been threatened with any CEASE and DESIST letters after writing this expose?

    Just curious…

    Perhaps this fell on deaf ears and it’s time to move on, huh?

    So sad…but I am glad you posted it. Sure gave me clarification and also not to place people on pedestals. I have done that all my life, believing people hear God more than me, that sort of thing. This whole ordeal has helped me to understand, all Christians are fallible and can miss God’s voice. No one has a special connection with the Father, at least one that any of the rest of us cannot have.

    Good lesson learned for me.

  51. I receive email updates from Nathan Neal. It was a very humble notification that he had to withdraw from the forum regarding one of the participants. He has that right.
    The person named Ted, has been in the past on Rod Parsley’s program in the 1990’s. Not sure since. I had purchased one of his program packets.
    I guess he has changed or it seems.
    This is a mess.

  52. John,
    I really didn’t want to read all this and examine it. But then, you didn’t want to do all of the yucky work you had to do to get to the truth. Thank you for refusing to allow your conscience to be hardened against the fear of the Lord by yielding to peer pressure or the simple desire for pleasure. Unpleasant stuff indeed. Thank you for pursuing the however unpopular truth.
    We all so desperately need to be governed by the fear of the Lord. And in this time of the popular messages from the pulpits in this iniquitous land ever-cheapening the grace of God in the minds of the hearers, I am all the more thankful for your refusal to compromise the eternal consequence of that message, that only if we obey God will we live; that if we are saved, then we will bear the fruits of salvation. Otherwise we lie and blaspheme the cross of Christ. And if we are His, then we will love one another, just as Jesus loved us and gave Himself for us on that terribly glorious stake.
    I am so deeply concerned for those in leadership who have become haughty. Knowledge does puff up. Thank you so much for drawing up beside Nathan in this. He is one of the very few in this movement who is pursuing the humility of Christ with fervor. Why? Because that man fears the Lord. If we forget or refuse to know the terror of the Lord, we will fall. The fear of the Lord destroys all pleasure except that of being in His presence, of being His and knowing Him. Thanks for not allowing us to forget the fear of the Lord. Sometimes only the fear of the Lord compels me to love, when I want to hate my enemy. But love I must. Only if we love one another will the world know that Christ is God. Dear brother, you are precious to my heart, and I am honored to undertake this prayer burden with you, that all involved in this fiasco would remember the command of our Lord, to love one another, and that the wolves would be clearly and publicly unveiled before every audience of God’s people, albeit in the Spirit of love.
    Clay Anthony

  53. Dear Mr. Little:

    I’m not a participator in social media and frankly, this situation is the only incidence that I have ever been provoked enough to write ministries. This willful deception and intensifying pain developing has moved me to submit my pennies in the pot. I’m just amazed. Anyway, I decided to look at the, Hear The Watchmen, Facebook page. To my utter disgust and amazement this is what I found posted there. By there fruit you shall know them. I feel for the people who are ignorantly going to this conference thinking the Spirit of God is going to be there imparting His presence and wisdom into their lives. Lord have mercy on the innocent ones.

    Gabe Snike
    January 6 at 5:29pm
    I find it utterly unacceptable and disconcerting that the Leal’s have done such damage to what has been, in my opinion, a very large group of people who believe deeply and want only to do good work on tnis earth. Shame on you, Leal’s. I believe that your method for stepping out of this conference could have been handled in a manner that did NOT create strife amongst the people who want nothing but spiritual healing. You are not humble. Ypu are an arrogant couple.
    2 CommentsLike · Comment · Share

    Rich Ufert
    Rich Ufert You are speaking in the flesh
    January 21 at 5:21pm

    Gabe Snike
    Gabe Snike What the FUCK?
    January 29 at 8:45pm

    Rich Ufert
    Rich Ufert You just confirmed my comment by your filthy language
    January 30 at 12:58pm

    Gabe Snike
    Gabe Snike Hey baby boy….smooch, smooch, kiss
    1 · 14 hours ago

    Who would?????????? Again, thank you Mr. Little for your intercession. Lord bind the work of darkness that tries to put out Your light. Bless Your servants as they (Nathan, John, Body of Christ) as they stand in the ring pushing back the darkness. Strengthen them, impart strategy and wisdom. No weapon formed against them shall prosper. Lucifer, Lord God rebuke you. Your knee shall bow!

    God Bless and Keep you under His Wings,


  54. Thank you for your courage Brother John. I put myself in your place and understand how troubling this whole issue must be for you personally, professionally, and spiritually.
    Though I know you try to remain humble and are uncomfortable with praise, your work and teaching is good and True.
    God works all things for good. I feel very much like Marcel in this matter.
    I feel this whole episode will work to God’s favor. I hope that this whole thing has opened some eyes as to what some of these “Watchmen” truly espouse.
    Steve Quayle, God bless him, I truly love the brother, but right now he is lost. Being learned, he thinks he is wise. This brother teaches there were Sumerians that lived before Adam, there is a “gap” between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, there were multiple global floods, and angels of God had sexual relations with women and conceived giants, some of which were 450 feet tall.

    Brother John, does your Bible teach such things?
    Such folly ought not be wrought in Israel.

    I rebuke the unGodly teachings of the “Watchmen”. I pray for their repentance. When the vision of God returns unto them, perhaps they will have the wisdom to not associate themselves with such unsavory characters.

    God bless you Brother John for your walk and your courage.

    Yours in Christ,
    Darryl Bond “Bondo”

    • “And the earth (was)(became) without form, and void;” The Gap theory is derived from the alternative translation Gen 1:2 of the past tense verb in aramaic does not exist so the word (was) is an incorrect translation. Youll need to study the issue for yourself and decide which you prefer. But in no way will I make a contetious point about it. Sometime when you study the word in greek and aramaic translations you end up with many of these varying interpretations. The next matter is bible does clearly state their was life on earth before Adam. It was not called (man) but life did exist and makes a point that Gen 1:1 in terms of time before Gen 1;2 could have been billions of years. Something happened after Gen 1:1 which was Lucifer leaving his appointed place thus you have darkness because the angel of light left his position. .:… the earth became without form and void” Thats why some believe in what you refer to as the Gap theory.

      And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and (replenish) the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
      Romans 11:33
      O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

    • Hi Angel,

      I have been very, VERY impressed with Carolyn and her willingness to come forward with her personal account. And, this MinuteToMidnite series is exceptional. I will definitely be listening to this.

      I have been talking about Carolyn and others like her to help our brothers and sisters realize that there is a deep and dark evil that seeks their destruction. These stories are NOT for the faint of heart, but they are as true as they are awful.

      These truly are the Last Days, and I’m afraid that we are far closer to the end of these Last Days than many realize.

      Yet another excellent comment, Angel. I appreciate your input.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • Thanks John for posting links to our A Minute To Midnite interviews with Carolyn Hamlett. I had talked with Carolyn before Christmas about doing a video on the third eye, the pineal gland, chakras and other new age deceptions. However, the year ended before we got round to it. This whole controversy that has erupted round the issue of the conference and the people involved in it and Nathan’s stand, it’s probably timely that we got the interview completed and put up it on youtube last weekend. I believe Carolyn did an excellent job of explaining why these New Age deceptions are being promoted in christian circles (and the world) ,the dangers of them and why we need to expose them.

        Carolyn knew nothing about the issue that had arisen between Nathan and the others involved, until a friend of mine told her of it ( after we had organized to do this interview), so this video would have been made regardless of who was taking what stand on the issue.
        Whether or not Nathan handled things in the best possible way I can’t really say, since I wasn’t there to hear the conversations or read the emails. But in the fact that he exposed the New Age doctrines that were espoused in that one show, I support him totally. It needed to be done! Having said that, I have felt pretty saddened to watch what has developed. I don’t want to point the finger or judge, but I do find it hard to understand why it is that Nathan that has born the brunt of so much criticism, and why the actual issues he confronted have been almost sidelined as unimportant or minimized. Like it or not it has affected the way I think of some of the people I greatly respected before this all blew up. I only hope and pray it gets sorted out in such a way that the watchman community grows in strength and unity rather than gets further divided. The proviso there being that sound doctrine be taught and agreed upon!
        A Minute To Midnite Show

      • Thank you for your compliments. And yes, it’s hard to hear some of what Carolyn went through. I think she is being used to reveal what we are really in battle with.

        It was an awesome series of interviews…I hope you and others find it very worthwhile. :).

        PS. No problem with the delay on my posts – – I now think it was an issue on my end. No worries!

  55. Blessings In the Lord Jesus Christ John,
    This post is going to be long.
    First off thank you for your post. I think one of the unintended consquences of it was that people have a chance poor out their spirit about the situation between the two camps. A scripture comes to mind:
    I Corinthians1: 10 -13
    10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

    12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

    13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
    I am sure you are familiar with this passage of scripture. I definitely think it applies here. I think when we cling to much to a person and that person winds up making a mistake (The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak) we not only become disenfranchised with the person but also are faith get’s stunted for a bit.
    I think that is why Paul said:Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
    I Corinthians1:11
    I am not placing blame on those who have expressed their disappointment in the matter. For I had many a conversation with my wife about this matter. I think in the end we need to remember the goal is Jesus.
    With that being said I do think there was error here on the part of Ted. I also don’t think he had a humble spirit in his apology for potentially wounding the body.
    Psalm 51 gives us the “formula” for true repentance.
    1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

    16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

    17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
    I don’t think Ted had this attitude.

    Scripturually I believe Nathan was more correct
    Romas 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.

    I think Ted put a huge stumblingblock out there for many young Christians coming out of New Age and the occult.
    I am not fully convinced that Pastor Lankford and Steve Quayle were trouncing Nathan. I did listen to the whole 3 hours (not knowing at first what they were talking about) and couldn’t really discern at first the bashing.
    Since this is way long I will just say I think Steve was more on Nathan’s side. He made a few comments challenging Ted’s testimony, I believe. We should have another council, like in the book of Acts when Paul had to rebuke Peter…

  56. John,
    What about this whole series on “Internet Troll” articles being written by Tom Horn and carried by Sky News. Is it in anyway related to this discussion. I have never seen such level of attack. Satan must be rejoicing at this.

    Thank you for taking the time to place the dead cat on the table.

    Steve Stone

    • Blessings John,


      Some are calling into question everyone attending. They all have become “tarnished”seeing that three Mikes is shady. Everyone includes:Russ, LA, Coach Dave and Gregg Jackson. Perhaps you can address this and if you think judgment is going to roll upon them as well.

      • Hi Sean H.,

        Thank you for your clarification. I appreciate it, and I did not understand you correctly. The fault is mine.

        You are right that the decision to go to the conference should not reflect upon those participating, or attending. God can use this conference for His glory, and I suspect that He will. Each person participating or attending will need to go to the Lord in prayer over this.

        As I said to another comment, Paul spoke of those who preached out of an attempt to hurt Paul. Yet, Paul rejoiced in that. (Philippians 1:16) So, I am with you on this.

        Unfortunately, there MIGHT be real evil there. I just don’t know. God will protect you, if you go. At worst, it won’t be what you were expecting it to be.

        In the end, we should always act out of love – and in prayer.

        Thank you, Sean. I’m glad that this was clarified.

        Yours in Christ,

        John Little

  57. Thank you so much Brother for this great truth. The Lord has recently been letting me know that it was time to stop listening to these men, I now know why thanks to you for speaking truth. I am not condemning anyone I will pray for these men, but what they have been saying about Brother Nathan Leal is absolutely disgraceful for men who call themselves men of God. We know that the Fathers true children will be persecuted thats how we know who is speaking truth in this situation. I went through your entire article and listened to the Hagmann show and listened to Nathan Leal, I also listened to Dave Hodges and I agree with you that Ted Broer was lying (I know this as fact not just because you said so) and I can honestly say, because I have been listening to all these men for almost 3 years that Nathan did absolutely nothing to deserve what these men are doing to him and they seem to be deliberately keeping it going and whining about themselves being attacked. I don’t know if you have seen this yet but David Lankford supposedly had a dream from God,, for some reason ( I wonder why) I have a very hard time believing that is from the God I love.

    Here is a sample:
    I believe that this needs Immediate prayer, I am not saying that I believe that these men are going to buy guns and start killing people, but we know that we are coming to the time when Christians are going to be against each other, Sister Lillian is also speaking truth, Father has already begun seperating the wheat from the tares and I believe that is what is going on with this situation, the wheat needs to come together and pray for each other. It’s terrible what is happening but I guess some Christians would rather be talk-show celebrities than soldiers in the army of THE MOST HIGH GOD.
    Blessings to you Brother John

  58. Philippians 1:18
    What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

    This portion of scripture is instruction on how to deal with this dis-continuity in the church.

  59. Wow. Lots of comments on this piece, John. Lots of really hurt people revealing their chagrin and disappointment with men they’ve trusted for years. It looks like the sheep are well informed, and the leaders of the flock have let pride blind their eyes to the truth. Not good. Those so blinded have prayers ascending on their behalf. I am hoping they take note.

    I hate that I remember this, but 20-something years ago, Joanna Michaelson wrote of the “Beautiful Side of Evil”; her personal foray into the dark dimension of occultism and new age mysticism that at the time, was penetrating the body of Christ in significant ways. Here we are now, decades later, and the current body of Christ has little to no knowledge of the incursions made in the past. Nor is the term, “new age” in the vernacular of the current slew of alleged leaders of the flock. The “new age” (only one of many terms used to describe essentially the same thing; paganism, idolatry, and any message other than the testimony of Jesus) is still alive, well, and flourishing amongst the body. Shame on all of us for it being so. The body had/has a responsibility to shut down such abominations in its midst; which Nathan is/was doing to his credit and the shame of all the rest. “Kill the messenger” is still operative in our midst…., as it was in ages past.

    Jesus had a thing or two to say to the church at Thyatira for allowing paganism to prosper in its midst. We all might do well to review His words from Revelation and spend some time reflecting on the depth of His meaning.

    And, for those to whom the “new age” is as mystical as the phrase implies, you might check out Michaelson’s book. It is still available on Amazon, and elsewhere, I’m sure. Her personal experiences are illuminating.

  60. I’m not sure if you read this article that Doug Hagmann put out on 1/1/2016 in response to the whole situation. Dave Hodges posted it on his website too. It seems that many people mistakenly thought it was written by Dave. So just thought I’d throw that out there.

    It was posted on the front page of Hagmann’s website the first few days of the year, along with Josh Peck’s article,

    Hope it come in handy.


    • Hi JD,

      Those articles do indeed come in handy, and they are excellent discussions.

      If only David Lankford and Steve Quayle had stayed off the air on January 7th, I would probably not have even known about this situation.

      I will say this, that the result was the revelation of who ‘Three Mikes’ was, and THAT darkness needed to be seen. Michael Scott Kerr is bad news, and we need to be able to see him for what he really is. Now that we do, we can say that we have been warned.

      Also, from the comments of others, some important lessons have been learned.

      I am emotionally exhausted by all this, but my hope is that the Body of Christ has been edified. May the Lord bring us all together in peace and in love.

      God is good, and we are sheep. And, sheep are not known for their great intelligence, but God knows this and will gladly extricate us from our foolishness, if we keep our eyes on Him. And, looking at my own past, I count myself as foolish, indeed.

      Thank you, JD. That was a good addition to our discussion. I value Doug and Joe very highly.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • Thank you dear brother for all you are doing. May God richly bless you according to the richness of his glory and refresh you to continue on in all that you are engaged in. I so appreciate all the information you have presented and the spirit in which you have presented it and whole-heartedly agree with your position.

  61. I’m not as eloquent as those above, and I’m not one to clothe my criticism in kind words. This is a troubling situation. Bottom line to me is that Doug/Joe, Steve, David, and Ted all want to sell us something. Whether that is why they do what they do is for the Lord to call, but they certainly profit from it and are clearly trying to protect their empires. It’s sad to see them circle the wagons of hubris around their shame. John, you and Nathan have ministries that likely cost you money, and you aren’t trying to sell me survival supplies or supplements. That speaks louder than any self righteous indignation I’ve heard from them the last few days.

    • Hi Frank,

      Thank you for that. Yes, it does cost me money to run this website, but life here in Taiwan costs far less than life in the US.

      However, there may come a time when I do need to ask for money, or even sell products to make ends meet. I have tried to avoid doing that for the very reason that you bring up.

      But, let me say this on behalf of Doug, Joe, Steve and David. I believe that they have been acting with the best of intentions. They believe that they correct in what they have done, and I – believe it or not – understand that.

      A lot of seminaries teach a kind of authoritarianism to their gullible students, and my wife and I are dealing with people who have been taught that foolish idea – to sacrifice the truth upon the alter of unity. I’ve seen many, many churches wrecked by this awful teaching, so I am completely familiar with it.

      So, let me ask you to forgive Doug, Joe, Steve and David. Please continue to value them as brothers in Christ. They have made great sacrifices for the benefit of the Body of Christ, and they continue to do so. I recognize their tireless service, and I will continue to commend them for it.

      I am completely certain that God will handle this situation.

      Thank you, Frank. May the Lord guide you and keep you.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • Thank you for putting all the info together in one place on this serious matter. I listened to the original broadcast with Dr Ted and knew heresy when I heard it. What disturbed me was DH agreeing with him. That put the questions in my mind. I read what you wrote about the incident and did my due diligence.
        Bottom line. God did not want Pastor Leal to conduct revival services in a place where He was not going to be. Casting pearls before swine is useless. I was willing to continue listening to their pod casts ,however,the fact that they did not post the broadcast with SQ and DL on 1/7, replacing it with CG, and on 1/29/16 H&H had Dr Ted on their show again sealed the deal for me. They can not be trusted to provide truth.
        There are enough lies in this world.
        I don’t need to seek out more.

      • I know this is off subject but why are in you Taiwan? Ive heard you twice on H&H and don’t recall what made you move there and why? Do you think America is about to be judged? I know many are becoming ex-Pats because of that but I wasn’t sure about you and your wife. Perhaps you testimony is located some place on your page. Provide a link and I will read it. Thanks John.

        PS: I was really sad today when I read Michael Boldea’s second post. I read through all the comments and most were on board with the conference, but there were a few very thoughtful and kind responses concerning what happened with Nathan (though Nathan’s name wasn’t mentioned). I didn’t see anything horrible, like the one he cites in his article so I am not sure why he’s upset. Maybe he took the Pearcy one down, I didn’t see it. What makes me sad is that Michael is such a man of God and it seems he’s very upset with those who oppose or maybe its just this Pearcy fellow.

        This thing has sure taken on a life of its own. Crazy huh?

        • Hi Karon Ruiz,

          My story is scattered across this website. A bigger part of it is here, towards the end:

          Basically, I was in Israel – with my wife – faced with the prospect of going back to the US, and I just could NOT do it. There was something inside of me that said, “NO!” So, I turned my heart towards Taiwan, and the Lord has blessed that decision, ever since.

          In short, it was the hand of God, why I’m here.

          I only found out about the ‘fate of the US’ while I was in Taiwan. Now, I’m SURE that I would never go back.

          I hope that helps, Karon. Crazy is right!

          Yours in Christ,

          John Little

  62. !!!^#%$*&!!(*&#%%!!!! (foams at mouth, rolling on floor) Come ON, people!!! I feel like the one lone pit bull surrounded by poodles as we are approached by an army of demon dogs. WE HAVE A DESPERATE FIGHT ON OUR HANDS!!!! QUIT FOOLING AROUND WITH THAT STUPID PINK BOW ON YOUR HEAD AND GET SERIOUS!!!!!

    Now then ….. a few really important points I would like to make:

    1. Can you fast and pray and get inspiration that is not of the Lord? OF COURSE – PAGANS DO IT ALL THE TIME. So do fake so-called Christians, which are even more dangerous than out-and-out pagans. Look up some time what happened when Oral Roberts tried to tell his followers that God told him He would “take him home” (kill him) if they didn’t cough up 80 million $ or some such amount to complete their “God-ordained” medical school that was going to find a cure for cancer. He went on a fast and said he would not eat til the money goal was reached. He got so crazy even his family admitted he was getting a bit “off”. The building was never completed and of course they did not find the cure for cancer. All of this was nonsense and worse. Those well-meaning sheep who gave their hard-earned money to this kook were totally wasting it. If they had given to a legitimate charity at least it would have fed or clothed someone who really needed help. Roberts had been caught red-handed paying people to fake healings onstage and many other inexcusable things. Yet these fool sheep kept following him.

    Consider that sometimes a fast is ordained of God and sometimes it’s not. You can decide to quit eating, but that doesn’t mean God told you to. If God supernaturally sustains you, well and good. But if someone fasts on their own for an extended length of time, and nature is not circumvented by God, they will eventually start hallucinating. Same with sleep deprivation.

    2. When someone shows you who they are, believe them. You will know them by their fruits. Is it possible to get any more clear than it already is, that SQ/DL/H&H/TB et al are on the wrong side of this equation and are bound and determined to go even farther in the wrong direction??? WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?????

    For what it’s worth, I ALWAYS from the very first time I went to his site had a check in my spirit about SQ. I continued only because SOME of the articles were informative. But many are complete nonsense. I also from the very beginning had uneasy feelings about H&H and DL.

    3. Is anyone paying attention to how many times Our Lord warned us of how rampant and clever deception would be? That the worst of it is not the Satanists openly recruiting for their cause, but those from within the church who are not as they try to seem? Is anyone paying attention? This is playing out before our eyes!!! I can’t help but think that the behavior we’re seeing – that of attacking one who has clearly followed biblical protocol and doing so in a way that could not be any less Christian – is that of people who never really knew the Lord to begin with. They are accomplishing the devil’s goals, not God’s. This could not be more obvious if you are willing to see what is right there. The kind that spend their lives “doing great works in His name” and will finally be faced with the fact that it was all a sham. Tragic and terrifying. But Our Lord – and do remember that He knows what He’s talking about – told us there would be MANY in this position. Many. Many.

    We have the most desperate fight of our lives right in front of us. Against the enemy, against the hordes of demons in the unseen realm that are working tirelessly to create deception, diversion, conflict, and to deceive the very elect. Do you really, REALLY get it how much more intelligent and clever fallen angels and the devil himself are than we are? You cannot go into this battle without the total covering of the Most Holy. They will make mincemeat of you. The Word tells us that satan and his angels can appear as angels of light. Most of us have heard that so many times that it just goes in one ear and out the other. But stop it halfway through and think about it. It’s terribly important.

    • Hi DRG,

      Spoken like a true, medical professional!

      And, I’m feeling a bit convicted by that ‘poodle’ comment. As I have said to many…

      When Jesus called us sheep, it wasn’t exactly a compliment.

      A corollary to that is:

      A sheep will never out-think a wolf.

      The question is whether, Doug, Joe, Steve and David are wolves in sheep’s clothing, or just sheep with bad breath. I lean to the latter interpretation, but it is understandable that some would think of them as wolves. They have certainly acted like wolves.

      The irony is that some have called ME a wolf, in terms of this situation. How ironic.

      I believe that the real wolves here are Ted and Three Mikes, and I believe that they have fooled us sheep. But, the light is dawning on this, and eventually the sheep will figure it out. Unfortunately, that takes time – enough time for someone to get ‘fleeced’ before you figure it all out. Nathan tried to help us avoid getting ‘fleeced’, and suffered for that attempt.

      So, I completely understand your upset over all this. I’ve been shaking my head over it, and frothing a bit, as well.

      We should NEVER EVER sacrifice the Truth on the alter of unity. We are unified because we love the Truth, not because we love unity.

      Thank you, DRG. That comment spoke to all of us.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • I understand your position, and I have no personal acquaintance or correspondence with any of the principals here. HOWEVER ……

        I identify with dogs for many reasons but especially in the cases where a stranger comes into the house, the dog growls and gets scolded for it, but the family eventually learns to their dismay that there was a reason for this.

        My gut does not have a good feeling at all about this. I could be wrong. But after many years of trial and error I have learned that my gut knows something, even if it can’t articulate how.

        Is it a coincidence that we have just had a lesson on cognitive dissonance? Are some in the community failing to apply that information? Are we forgetting that there is a very strong tendency to dismiss facts – FACTS – that go against what we WANT to believe? That emotion or the need to maintain a comfortable state of mind is often given more weight than actual reality?

        The glass of water can be seen as half empty or half full. “Sheep” may have bad breath – but does it smell like rotting meat? Sheep don’t eat meat.

        Here are some of the facts that I equate to rotting meat and which warrant intense scrutiny:

        Lawsuits have been threatened –
        — for TELLING THE TRUTH
        — for following what the bible commands us to do
        — for WARNING AWAY those who would be fleeced
        — thereby REDUCING PROFITS

        LOOK AT THIS – and force your brain to process what is before your eyes. Who is it that fights tooth and nail against truth? Against the bible? Wants to deceive and rob the sheep and becomes enraged when anything gets in the way of this?

        Intent is everything. That’s why there’s a difference between involuntary manslaughter and premeditated first degree murder. The enemy is constantly trying to pass off his crimes as mistakes, slip-ups, momentary weakness, HUMAN FRAILTY, etc. They are not. When a wolf in sheep’s clothing begins to be suspected, he will fight and fight to make this seem like a mistaken brother instead of what it really is. This only enables him to continue wreaking havoc in the body of Christ. Some wolves are more expert, more vicious, more extreme than others. That is not to say those others are not wolves.

        I keep seeing this assumption that certain people are “brothers in Christ” as if this is a given. It isn’t. Professing belief isn’t a sure sign – even the demons believe. Jesus said flat out that it’s not those who call Him Lord that go to heaven – it’s those who do the will of the Father.

        In the most black and white of terms, those who go to Heaven belong to the Lord. Those who don’t have rejected Him. Those who knowingly refuse to do the will of the Father are rejecting Christ and the salvation He offers. They are refusing the offer of the Holy Spirit to enable them to act according to the Spirit of Christ instead of their own pride and greed. Until death, there is the possibility of repentance and restoration. But if death occurs first, I think people who behave this way will profoundly regret this behavior that they refuse to repent of now. In this present condition of rebellion, I would not call them brothers in Christ. After sincere repentance, I would.

        All kinds of on-air verbal attack has transpired, for hours at a time, and looking at the big picture, the core reason is that SHEEP WERE WARNED AGAINST HERETICAL DOCTRINE. What Christian in his right mind would object to that? He WOULDN’T – what does that tell us? The numbers of pseudo-Christians, New Agers, poorly taught prophecy junkies and uneducated believers in psuedoscience – and all of the intersections of these groups with the prepper community – are huge compared to the numbers of true, solid, bible-literate real Christians. The “ministries” and websites of these people appeal to and profit from this larger pool, and the principals are outraged for 2 reasons –

        1. their anticipated income from appealing to this target market has now been reduced.

        2. their pride is offended – someone dared to challenge their so-called expertise and did so intelligently. And proved them wrong, though they refuse to admit it.

        I think it is crucial to read between the lines and see the operant factors in the spiritual realm as well. I think the enemy is absolutely infuriated at the successful expose of his attempt to sneak new age heresy into the lives of believers. I believe he is operating through these people and I think their pride and greed blinds them to this. One of satan’s tactics is to put on a velvet glove before he punches you – because you would not suspect a velvet glove, a seeming brother in Christ, or any other seemingly harmless thing. You must look past the surface. It’s not the glove that hurt you.

        Lies have been and continue to be told, knowingly and quite deliberately, and efforts made to cover this up and deny it – which is a compounded lie – now who is it that’s the father of lies????

        Nathan, I hope you are reading this. I will email this segment to you to make sure. From the other comments, it appears that most people if not all that were exposed to this GET IT. Take what comfort you can from the fact that these parties’ own behavior has brought down upon their heads an avalanche of angry emails and comments in your defense. It has reduced their readership and increased yours.

        God bless you. We believe in you, we stand with you in prayer. The problem people make a lot of noise but they are a tiny minority compared to the rest of us. This life is short compared to the hereafter and you are earning tremendous reward. You are a faithful watchman and we appreciate every word you have said and written for our protection and we thank you for it. God bless.

  63. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
    4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
    5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.
    6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
    Revelation 11

    After reading DRG’s comment, I want to share this with ear’s that hear.
    I’ve said it before, the Church has been femmenized to the point when these two witnesses whom God has ordained show up and do their unloving, harsh, rude and nasty ministry, most of the Church will miss it ,fall into deception because they are not loving and hugging people, and the soft and fluffy, naive saints will fail to see that they are sent by the Lord.
    These are times of God’s judgments and His wrath and it will not look like too much love raining down on the wicked. They refused God’s mercy and repentance and chose His wrath.
    What I’m trying to say is please do not forget that our Loving God is also just and will do as He said He would do… and it’s not pretty.

    I think this episode we are in is to reminds us to throw away the fluffy and put on the armor of God (Ephesian’s 6) for WAR.
    We are to love one another but really, really HATE evil and not compromise with it, give it a pass or wink at it while killing the messenger of truth, as the sloppy gang of four have done.

    Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

    The Lord bless you and give you MORE STRENGTH. We all need it for the coming days because it is no time to faint.

  64. John,

    Trying to find a direct email to you, but coming up empty-handed. Check out this interview. There are others from this YT account from the same guest I think all should hear.

    If you haven’t heard the story of Carolyn Hamlett before, search for Daniel Duval’s multi-part series she did with him. Very eye-opening.

    God Bless


  65. It is tragic when any professing Christian takes legal action against another professing Christian. It just shows where their hope and faith are, e.g., 1 Cor. 6:1-7:

    Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

    Scripture shows that God can use a man without approving of him. May God help us always seek His approval before seeking to be used.

  66. John as gut wrenching as this is for you the wolves are continuing to expose themselves rather than just moving forward in God’s business.Today 2-2-16 S.Q.had an article on his site by one of the participants of the conference Michael Boldea ;who weighed in to his audience,followed by a comments section of which mike kerr was very happy.Many of the people who have commented to you regarding D.L.&S.Q. ,you have been reluctant to find fault with directly and that is understandable given our own faults.But what I continue to see is S.Q.doing whatever he can to keep this issue alive by publishing by choice articles that defend there position rather than seek repentance.So for me I,m done with all of them.What INFO I need I”ll come her for and Just as charges a fee,I’ll be first to sign up.

  67. Hi, John. Thank you for taking a brave stand. I saw a post by brother Michael Boldea yesterday and have asked for further comments on the comment I left on his post. I am pasting it below and would appreciate your take on things. You need not post this if you don’t deem it appropriate (and I’m ok with that). But I would like to hear from you regarding my comments and the scriptures cited. Thanks for all you do for the Kingdom as well. It is much appreciated. pd

    Comment to Michael Boldea (02.02.16)

    Michael, I think I understand what you are saying. I guess my concern is where to draw the line. For example, the Apostle Paul makes a clear distinction between the sins of those who claim to be Christians and the sins of those outside the faith (see below).

    1 Corinthians 5:9-13
    9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

    I do NOT mean to be contentious. Rather, I wish for ALL of us (those involved directly and those of us observing) to come to a peaceful, biblical resolution to this. I am concerned for the brother who exposed the false teachings (new age) and how he is being castigated. I do not know what other sins he may have committed, but it appears he has tried to discuss matters with that person (but was spurned). And thus, he exposed the false teachings to the Body of Christ at large and was obedient to the following scriptures:

    Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. – Jude 3

    And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. – Ephesians 5:11

    Michael, I have no problem with you preaching to Mormons as they would fall under Paul’s distinction of those outside the true faith. But I also understand those who have withdrawn from the conference as they appear to be removing themselves from certain individuals who CLAIM to be Christians but are apparently involved in questionable behavior or propagating false teachings (new age).

    Again, I am not trying to be contentious. I am trying to better understand these type of situations so that I (and hopefully many others) can learn how to deal with differences of opinion within the Body and then how to respond in a biblical manner. So please offer any thoughts you may have regarding the passages cited above, specifically in dealing with those who claim to be Christians and those who do not.

    Thanks for all you do for the King and the Kingdom, Michael.
    Respectfully submitted,
    Perry DeYounge

  68. “Some of those who are wise shall fall, to refine them, and to purify, and to make them white, even to the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed.”
    ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭11:35‬ ‭WEB‬‬

    Considering all the leaders who have fallen or have been exposed as of late, I view these events in light of the above mentioned verse.

    • Hi TL2,

      Yes, but two verses above describe what that fall will be:

      And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

      – Daniel 11:33

      However, if you mean that that those who are ‘they that understand’ who have need of purification. In that case, I would agree. It pains me to think that ANYONE would need such purification, but I’m afraid that we do.

      May God have mercy upon us!

      Thank you, TL2.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  69. Now conference speaker Michael Boldea Jr. has posted his defense commenting, “the truth will rise like a phoenix”. Like a PHOENIX? What is that? So we have David Lankford saying ‘don’t touch the Lord’s anointed’, and Mike Boldea saying, ‘don’t touch the Lord’s prayed up (and anointed), both articles posted by Steve Quayle. These are typical defenses of those who are not true leaders in the body of Christ, and appeal to those who would ‘follow’ the ‘Man of God’.

    Church, the reality is, we know the hour we are in and the Word says that even the elect will be deceived (Matthew 24:24). Time to put our Holy Spirit antennae up in a greater way. We were just tricked here in Panama by a ministry that was in fact led by a pedophile. We did not see right away though there were red flags. We praise God for showing us. Now there are red flags going up concerning the conference leader and speakers and others in the alternative media. God is exposing something through these faithful brothers, Nathan Leal and John Little. We all need to ask God, and He will show us by His Holy Spirit if someone is of Him or not. It is a humbling experience to admit we were wrong.

    As CJC commented we have also had some red flags concerning Steve Quayle and others in the alternative media. Why is Alex Jones linked and promoted so much (NOT a Christian but seemingly steering viewers in a way to make Christians look stupid)? Why are there so many prepping products and gold and silver promoted (by S.Q. and others) when the U.S. is clearly by Scripture going to be destroyed (Rev. 17-18)? Why do these leaders speak against leaving the U.S. (in particular S.Q. and Dave H.)? So Doug Hagmann went to a Jesuit Seminary? This is a HUGE red flag. He is not acting as someone who has seen the light. We know that the Masons/Jesuits have infiltrated the ‘church’. All of these men could speak much more to this topic, though they may not be allowed to continue if they did. Why could they not have infiltrated the alternative media? (btw, David Bay of speaks much about the topic of Masons in the church. Also former Jesuit priest Alberto Rivera spoke out much against them in his ministry to the Church and was persecuted and ultimately lost his life for it. This is the mark of someone who is true.)

    We should be wary of attending ‘Christian’ conferences anymore. If they are infiltrated we risk submitting ourselves to various forms of witchcraft, mind control and deception (not to mention surveillance) that the powers-that-be have been using and perfecting for years, esp. in the charismatic church. These brothers (N.L. and J.L.) are sounding the alarm for the entire church. Just as Catherine C. expressed, the grief is great to constantly have to leave the fellowships we are in. But praise God, He is bringing us out, and regrouping us as His true body. And even if we are ‘alone’, we have Jesus, our brother in sufferings! (Isaiah 53:3) He will show us the way. Appreciate you all.

    • Hi D. Pearcy,

      I understand your concerns about all these men. And, I’m in another conflict with a man here in Taiwan that has some of the same characteristics as the men in your comment.

      Others are involved with me in this conflict, and I’ve had to tell these others that the man in question is not a bad person. He’s just a person that should not be where he is. If he was not in a position of leadership, we would have had no problem with him.

      Steve Quayle, David Lankford, Mike Boldea, Doug and Joe and others have allowed their relationships to cloud their understanding of the truth. I’m sure that there are other reasons, but I think that this is the biggest one. (Although, I cannot be sure.)

      We should NEVER sacrifice the Truth upon the altar of Unity. NEVER.

      Furthermore, God may still use this conference for His Glory. Maybe. Paul the Apostle spoke of those who preached the gospel in an attempt to hurt Paul (Philippians 1:16), but Paul rejoiced in that.

      We’ll see what happens. We should remember that we must always act in love, which I know that you all do.

      Thank you, D. Excellent comment. Very appreciated.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  70. Yes, that is what I am saying, the purifying part. I, like you, am a stickler for context :-). I guess this is why it is serious business when James says not many of us should want to become teachers, for they receive harsher judgment. With greater understanding, comes greater responsibility.

    Be blessed.

  71. Ps. I personally am not grieved that some may be purified like this, but rejoice, because Abba will be using these thoroughly cleaned-out vessels for His purpose. The enemy will regret even thinking of messing with them. I know that my own situation is for my purifying. I want my clothes to be cleaned, whitened and pressed!

  72. You are very good at getting good news out and I have great respect and admiration for you but disagree with your total support of Nathan. Partly because according to the Scriptures, man at his best state is altogether vanity. That means to me, however much we know about anything is very small compared to what there is to know about it. Satan’s crowd has stolen a lot of knowledge to use and Christians have a tendency to reject some knowledge they know little about because it is associated with evil. Not saying that is the case, I definitely don’t know enough about it to say, but the possibility exists. Main problem is covered in Paul Craig Roberts Christmas Column. No matter our beliefs, we need to stick together to survive the future.
    Ain’t looking too good for that to ever happen.. Keep on keeping on Brother, I appreciate you.

    • Hi Duane Griffith,

      I don’t ‘totally support’ anyone, not even myself. My goal here was to illuminate an injustice. A sin.

      We all have our faults, so none of us deserve ‘total support’. I’m sure that Nathan feels the same way.

      As for Paul Craig Roberts. I read some of his stuff, but he’s a bit of a snake. He is far more ‘establishment’ than he would lead you to believe. And, his hatred of Israel is incredible.

      Do not trust PCR.

      Furthermore, as I have said to others, and will say to you:

      Truth must NEVER be sacrificed upon the altar of Unity.

      We must love the truth with a consuming passion, no matter what the cost. Only THEN should we seek Unity. We are destroyed because we followed the kind of advice that PCR gives us here.

      Thank you, Duane.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  73. John:

    Thank you ***SO VERY MUCH*** for your willingness to let the Holy Spirit of God lead and guide and direct and empower you to share with all of us here all of this information about this “Nathan Leal — Ted Broer situation.”

    I deeply respect and thank you from the bottom of my heart for your willingness to sacrifice all of your time and your energy that it took for you to research and to provide for all of us here this HUGE amount in-depth information concerning this current MESS in the body of Christ!

    As a fellow **VERY** flawed human being who loves our Lord with all of my heart and with all of my soul, I just want to say a great big “THANK YOU!!” to you, John, for your ***wonderful service to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ*** that you do through this OmegaShock website that has been entrusted to you by our Lord!

    Your Brother in Christ:

    Steve L.

  74. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
    2 Peter 2: 3

    After reading your message I could not help but notice your failure to mention or even rebuke the false teaching of Ted Broer whom you continue to give a pass to.

    Why is that ?
    What kind of anointed shepherd, as you claim to be, does this and fails to rebuke or correct false teaching ?

    It’s a commendable diversion, your teaching about the laying on of hands, but what about the grievous sin of covetousness and merchandising of the flock so rampant in the church and conference racket$ right now, today ?

    My biggest doubt with your message is the level of merchandising/business/ making money off the sheep, in the Church which you conveniently ignored, completely left out.

    You seem to be getting sloppy and careless ?

    I wonder if anyone laid hands on the wolf Ted Broer before he was given the microphone at H$H to poison the flock ?

    Marcel Cousineau

  75. We were listening that night that Dr. Broer was on and shortly after he made the remark about the penile gland I got up and shut off the show. My husband wasn’t really listening to it and I just felt like I wasn’t interested in the subject matter. We were also listening the night that Steve Quayle and Dr. Lankford was on. The opening comments didn’t set to well with us and shortly into the show I decided to shut it down. I just felt disturbed about it.

    It wasn’t until I red your article that I put everything together. This past Wednesday at the end of the show the three Mikes called in and his wife Jeanne was mentioned and I couldn’t believe it. I was also astounded when Ted Broer came on the show a little while after the initial incident.

    I have to be honest and say that I have been more than a little unnerved in the past when Steve Quayle and Dr. Lankford were bashing people that observed the Sabbath or used the name of Yahweh or Yeshua as if it was something to be ashamed of. We really like the Hagmann show and continue to listen to it but we are very cautious and if we hear something being said that is alarming we just shut it down. I will also like to state that we go to Steve’s blog every day multiple times and we listen to him when he is being interviewed by whoever, Ted Broer is a different subject. We may tune in when he is on the Hagmann show but are attentive to what he is saying and if something questionable comes up we just turn it off. We have never listened to his show and have no interest in doing so.

    When the three Mikes called in promoting the watchmen conference the other night I really was shocked and I agree with the statements that we need to be in prayer for all of our brothers in Christ that the deception would be revealed. The thing that bothers me most about all of this is all of the millions of people that listen to the show and this apostate evil is being let loose on them.

    I want to thank you for posting that info on: A Minute to Midnight show with Carol Hamlett. That was very informative.

  76. Hi John, Glad to hear you and family are well there. We will continue to pray for Taiwan as well.

    Below is what I sent to Mike Boldea two days ago in response to his second post ( about my and other’s comments to him. He has yet to post it. If you don’t want to post it that’s okay, but I just wanted all who saw his post to see my response. He and others seem very upset about the supposedly dark and nasty emails they have been getting. I could not judge what they are getting in private, but I am trying to read publicly posted comments for that kind of language. So far I haven’t seen it, certainly not the language and ‘tone’ they have dished out.

    Thanks for this week’s posted headlines of interest and the time you take for commentary. It is helpful. God bless.

    Response to Mike Boldea, Feb. 4, 2016
    No, I don’t know you personally at all Michael. For the most part on the internet we can get to know one another only through the articles, teachings, and comments posted. And when I saw Steve Quayle’s post of your article of Feb. 1, I trusted him that I could open that post and find hopefully a mature spiritually-sound contribution to the resolution of the offense made to a brother in Christ who was in your (the S.Q.) circle. Instead I found the statement, “the truth will rise like a phoenix,” a pagan reference spoken of by S.Q. even recently to the New World order (a.k.a. Lucifer) rising out of the ‘ashes’ of the old world order. I read the words “offense”, “take things personally”, “egos,” “agenda”, “childish”, “sheer relish and giddiness”, “trying to stoke the flames”, “all-out blood feud”, “sling mud every which way”, “I am learning self-restraint”, and now in this current post and diatribe against me and others, “vitriol”, “black-mass séance”, “offends me”, “the Lord rebuke you!” (along with nearly 100 references to “I”, “me”, and “my”)

    So is that, the Lord rebuke you ‘Satan’? (Zechariah 3:2, Jude 1:9). Sir, I do not appreciate myself nor others in the body of Christ who quote Scripture and have a biblical concern being blasted and treated as ‘Satan’ by yourself, David Lankford, and indirectly S.Q. through his posting of both of your articles. I do not know which of my words or Scriptures so offended you, but quite frankly your posts sound like hell. You are angry, offended, and downright hostile. I consider your words in these posts and words spoken by others against those who brought forth truth abusive. God has no grandchildren sir. I didn’t know your grandfather, and I don’t know you. It is not about talking the talk, but sharing the truth in love, sir.

    I am sorry my words (not the Lord’s) were offensive to you. I would not want to get to know you or others who have angrily denounced those who care about truth and the body of Christ not being led into deception. I will not be looking further to your ministry nor theirs for insight and spiritual guidance (and certainly not for revival). Thank you for posting my comments. D. Pearcy

    • Hi D. Pearcy,

      That was well written.

      It was harsh, but I’m afraid that harshness was called for.

      When Paul was speaking of those in leadership:

      Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

      – 1 Timothy 5:20

      I wish that it wasn’t necessary, but a leader has a double blessing for teaching the Word. But, he also receives a double condemnation, if he should teach error.

      My hope is that these men will humble themselves and see the truth.

      I am deeply distressed that so many have turned their backs upon the truth, and sinned publicly against their brother.

      Thank you, D. I’m glad that you’ve added your voice to this issue.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  77. Thank you so much for standing up for Nathan Leal and for speaking “truth” regarding this situation. I’ve heard many times these ‘watchmen’ say that truth is not always easy to hear. We, as followers of Jesus and listeners of these watchmen/pastors need to know truth. It should not be hidden from us. Thank you for exposing this “Mike” person.
    I had no idea. I have purchased three tickets for the conference: one for my husband, one for me, and one for my son. My daughter has purchased tickets for her and her husband. I have been so excited about this conference because my son has been seeking the Lord after years of being backslidden, my daughter is desiring to be more diligent with her walk, and my son-in-law needs to be saved. For my son-in-law to agree to go to this conference is definitely answered prayer. We are going as a family. Now that this has happened, it has shakened me, but I’m still going to the conference because I believe what Satan meant for evil, God means for good.

    I believe everyone looks at this situation from different angles. I personally look at it as a follower of Jesus, as a sheep, watching and seeking guidance from ‘watchmen’ and shepherds. This has been a lesson for me to keep my eyes on the one true Shepherd. The Hagmanns’ Show has introduced me to some very good watchmen/men of God, namely you, John, and I’m grateful for that. I’m very, very concerned about the New Age teaching and it not being addressed. This man should not be on this show any longer. If Nathan had not explained what he did to the followers of his website – to the followers of Jesus, how would we know the lies being said and the heresy. Are we not important enough to know the truth? Yes, for most people they could figure out what Ted Broer was spewing was false, but I’m sure for some people that might be new in Christ, this would be confusing and dangerous to say the least. In my mind there is no way to defend this man and having him on again.

    The show with David Lankford and Steve Quayle brings tears to my eyes. I believe they both think that gossip was being spread, but I don’t see it that way. It seems the angle Pastor Lankford looks at it is that his ministry was affected by gossip. I can understand how he innocently was caught up in this and how all of this seemed to cast a shadow on his ministry. People were wanting him to take sides. To me it’s not a matter of taking sides. It’s a matter of exposing false doctrine and bringing truth to the light. It’s a matter of telling God’s children the truth so that they can take it to the Lord and make decisions. You see, if I would have known the truth earlier, I probably would not have purchased tickets. I have not been a faithful follower of Nathan’s website so I was a little confused trying to listen to the show with Pastor David and Steve Quayle. I knew something was going on because I listen to Pastor David’s sermons each week. Something was mentioned, but I didn’t know what it was about. I’m so glad you saved Nathan’s audio explaining everything. Now I understand. There was nothing said that I would consider gossip.

    I think what happened to Doug’s wife angered Steve Quayle and I can understand being so emotional over that. The angle he looked at it was his close friend was hurting and he was hurting with him. I get that. And again, he got caught up in this, but didn’t ask to be. People were probably emailing him wanting him to take sides.

    I would like to share something right now. I’m no one special – let me say that up front. But after I listened to the criticism of Nathan Leal on the Hagmann Show, and because I have thought highly of these two men, I had come to the conclusion that Nathan must have handled this situation all wrong. My husband and I spoke of how harsh these two were of him, but in my mind, he must not have let the Lord lead him in this. But when I would go to the Lord in prayer, my heart would fill with compassion for Nathan and God would want me to lift Him up in prayer. It was as if I felt his hurt. (I couldn’t have felt the extent of his hurt). Every time I prayed for the situation, compassion for Nathan came over me. Now I know why.

    My husband and I have sat down this afternoon after reading this article and have made some decisions – decisions on who to listen to and who not. God continues to open eyes and ears. It’s hard to see the truth sometimes, but as Nathan said in that audio clip, we’re too late in the game to let false doctrine creep in. And covering up the garbage spewed is just as bad as spewing it. I’ve listened to people talk out of both sides of their mouths in this situation. One time you hear we are supposed to expose the false teachers, even by name, but the next time it’s said that when someone does it, it’s considered gossip. Too much confusion!

    Thanks again John. I know the information in this article wasn’t easy to bring to light.

    Bobbie Griffin

    • Hi Bobbie Griffin,

      What an excellent comment. Thank you.

      You have really brought out the core issues in this. It is good to see such discernment.

      My own addition to what you said is that we are all vulnerable to getting things wrong and attacking the wrong person. It’s why we should always be open to correction from others and seek humility. My great hope is that I will always follow this path.

      But, you cannot trust that I – or anyone else – will seek humility and be open to correction. Never trust us.

      Some interesting speeches will be made at this conference, and I will be interested in your report.

      Keep up the good work, Bobbie. That was a truly excellent comment.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little


    One more thing. This is an article that Doug Hagmann and Steve Quayle made public to call out Michael Erevna, aka, Michael McLeod, and a woman named Marinka Peschmann. I believe it was well-written. These people were spreading lies (sound familiar) and Doug and Steve reached the point where they had no choice but to go public as “obedient watchmen” in a joint statement. They make awesome points – “We approach our positions as watchmen with sobriety and solemnity that is required for this responsibility, and understand that it is our charge to provide accurate and scripturally sound information and doctrine to those who seek it.” “We understand that we serve solely at the pleasure of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and furthermore understand that we will be accountable for our actions before God.” “It is God who will judge our earthly ministry, taking note of those souls who have been brought to Him through our obedience and willingness as His vessels using all venues available to us.” “Adherence to sound Biblical doctrine is a scriptural imperative from which there MUST BE NO deviation.” “As watchmen, we understand that we will be judged more harshly for squandering our responsibility, knowingly or unwittingly, or by creating or facilitating any doubt that would cause anyone to stray from unity under God.” “This includes remaining silent in the face of doubts created by an abundance of malice by those who are deliberately causing confusion, chaos, and enmity among the body of the church and God’s remnant.” “We know that God is neither the source of confusion or chaos, and that this condition serves only the master of lies and deception.”

    As I said, this article was well-written and a perfect example how to confront someone publicly who is telling lies on a believer/watchman. I look at this example and say that Nathan Leal certainly followed this. As a last resort, after lies were spewed, he created his audio and yes, he used other audio to back up what he was saying so that the truth could be told. Nathan takes his position as a watchman serious, just as Steve and Doug do. As they stated in their article, “Adherence to sound biblical doctrine is a scriptural imperative from which there must be no deviation.” One thing that’s disturbing to me is, if watchmen are to take their positions this serious, and they will be judged “more harsh” for squandering responsibility, how come this new age doctrine slipped by on more than one occasion? Nathan is the only watchman to bring it to light! How sad.

    John, wouldn’t it be awesome if these men would swallow their pride, and go to one another and just simply say, “If I’ve offended you brother, I would like to apologize and make things right.” They wouldn’t even have to go back over things. They could consider it water under the bridge. Every one of these men have been so instrumental for the kingdom. Nathan is not a bad person. He doesn’t deserve such shunning. That’s just childish. Come on guys, set an example for all to see. There’s power in forgiveness and restoration.

    Okay, I’m done this time.

    Bobbie Griffin

  79. Hello John,

    I am so thankful that you and your wife are safe after the earthquake. I thought of you right away, so I’m glad you posted here about your status.

    I have, like many others, been thinking every day about the situation with Nathan and the others involved. I could say a lot, but for the sake of brevity, I will keep my thoughts pretty short!

    I believe your article and opinions are spot on and it certainly revealed the Three Mikes issue, but do you think it’s possible that something else is missing from the story? The reason I ask is that it seems so odd that there is such a division between these men, and is so uncharacteristic of them (SQ, DH, and DL).

    I have wondered perhaps Nathan did his own research and threatened to expose Three Mikes himself. There is almost a vile hatred coming from them which makes me wonder if that could be a part of what has happened.

    Also, It looks like your articles have been removed from the Hagmann’s site. If that is true, I want to express my sadness about it.

    I hope Tony and Chris will consider having you on their show so we can hear your updates and information. I plan to email them with this suggestion. I hope that’s ok with you 🙂 Their show with Carolyn Hamlett must have been guided by the Holy Spirit for it to come out just as your article here did. It was confirmation for me that you and Nathan are doing the right thing.

    God bless.

    • Hi Angel,

      Thank you, for that.

      Yes, I think that there is a missing piece. But enough has been exposed, to show others that there’s something wrong.

      My main intention was to expose and heal an injustice done to a brother, at the hands of other brothers. The discovery of Three Mikes came out of ‘left field’.

      The ‘missing piece’ might come out later, as such things often do. We’ll see.

      I pray that we will all recognize the truth of the matter, and come together in truth and reconciliation.

      Thank you, Angel. Another excellent comment.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • Hi Angel,

        I listened to the first hour. It does sound like Augusto Perez was agreeing with Nathan Leal and critical of Steve Quayle and David Lankford. I noticed that he also mentioned about someone having multiple names.

        So, it sounds like Augusto Perez understands the situation pretty well.

        I have a quibble over his discussion of the word Apostle, which means messenger. I try to stay away from minor disagreements.

        Thank you, Angel.

        Yours in Christ,

        John Little

        • Hi John,

          Thank you for taking the time to listen…I thought as you did that he sees what we do about this “situation”. He was pretty hot under the collar, which is pretty uncharacteristic of him. But .I have a lot of respect for him so it doesn’t surprise me. He must have read your above article

          I have to admit, I have been a little confused, because so many comments are cryptic in a way since they don’t name names.

          Thanks again.

          P.S. I would have to research the term “apostle” to understand further what you are saying.

  80. One thing that comes to mind for me is “motive”?
    It seems to me (I could be wrong), that Nathan Leal had everything to loose, and Nothing to gain in all of this, yes?

    Thank you John, and God bless

  81. The Watchmen NOT Gifts to Church

    This essay in response to the watchmens responses concerning the gifts given by the Holy Spirit to the Body Of Christ. What are the gifts?
    The first place people may remember about the gifts of the Holy Spirit is located in 1 Cor. 12.
    It has been widely taught the 9 manifestations listed in this chapter are gifts from the Holy Spirit which in short is heretical to say the least. The gift IS the Holy Spirit “ Christ In You” – the New Birth. These are manifestations of the new birth and every believer has access to them according to their own believing. The “gifts”in KJV is in italics. Some might consider that belief as heresy but that is what the bible says. What does that mean?
    “The italicized words in the King James Bible are words that were added by the translators to help the reader.” In simple terms IT DOES NOT BELONG THERE. If you disagree then your wasting your time reading the rest of this rebuttal so try and stay humble. This subject in 1 Cor needs to be explored further before I write an essay on that chapter in the bible.
    My focus is on explaining what the GIFTS are. It is plain simple and wont take long.
    Ephesians Ch 4
    11 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;….” why?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:…”
    Its is clear what The Lord Jesus gave to to the body of Christ and why. To add another is heresy. There are only 5 gift ministries for the body of Christ and “ The Watchmen” are not on that list. Say what you will of a calling or mission from the Lord. A watchmen is not a gift ministry therefore it is not a ministry of Jesus Christ and the true God. After this whole mess concerning Nathan Leal, has inspired investigation and serious contemplation of one own beliefs to call out the so-called watchman as propagating a lie.. Its a fraud ministry of the Lord. I believe these men may be sincere and born-again-only God knows their hearts. Because they use a verse in Jeremiah to justify their ministry and calling built upon a foundation of sand and NOT rooted in the word of God and grounded in love. Slam dunk! see ya . God Bless You all Hope and pray for understanding and opening the eyes of the blind in this matter.

    • Hi Mark,

      Whoah, slow down there. Not so fast.

      Nathan wasn’t saying that being a ‘watchman’ was a ‘gift of the Spirit’. He said that it was a ‘calling’, and I agree that it is. I just see a broader method of calling someone to be a watchman.

      However, I also agree that we ALL have the Holy Spirit, and that we are gifted according to our faith – and our need/desire. 1 Cor 14 also speaks to the ability to seek the OTHER gifts of the Spirit – not just tongues.

      To your point about ‘italics’, a lot of those ‘italics’ are pretty accurate. Without those italics, it would be almost impossible to understand certain passages. Also, word-for-word translation would be impossible to read, so requiring such ‘accuracy’ is unreasonable.

      To put it another way:

      You can be precise. Or, you can be understandable. But, you cannot be both.

      This is also why you need to learn the original languages, if you can – and/or get an interlinear Bible. Having said that, some of those ‘interlinear Bibles’ aren’t accurate, either. I’ve found that out for myself.

      Never trust a translation. Go to the original, wherever possible.

      Thank you, Mark. It’s good to see such passion for the Bible.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • Johm it is plain in cor ch 12. They are called manifestations and a distiction is made in the 3 versus prior
        Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

        5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

        6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
        (But a contrast to previous statements are not GIFTS.
        7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.( You can manifest them all John. It is available according to your believing. . Then the 9 manifestaions are listed. This desrves more study in future for sure. I was not dissing Nathan at all. . Actually his article in 10 or so pages said the basic message about whata watchmen is and is not. Thanks God Bless sir for letting me post. i have an updated version at:

        • I will do a study on ch Cor 12 in depth. I use youngs analytical concordance and lexicon and read other versions of translations and read other peoples work on the subject including the expanded translations and Interlinear. I willsend you you study when Im done and you can give some some feed back on it but I must say I consider keen in discerning scripture and do what it says concerning study. II Tim. 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

          PS please take a look at my latest study on the unforgivable sin

          • Hi Mark,

            I commend your zeal. Keep at it.

            Please be careful about commentaries. I’ve seen a lot of error in them, and I always steer clear of them.

            One thought that you might consider on the idea of ‘unpardonable sin’. It’s not that God cannot pardon them.

            It’s that God will NOT.

            One of them is taking the Mark of the Beast. All who do so, go to Hell. No exceptions.

            It’s not described as an ‘unpardonable sin’. But, God has said that He will NOT pardon it.

            Anyway, keep up the good work, Mark.

            Yours in Christ,

            John Little

      • I use concordances lexicons other bibles using expanded translation as well study the greek and aramaic words. Usually there are 5 to 30 english words translated for for 1 sigle word in greek or vise versa. The word “watch” for instance has 9 completely different aramaic words and all are translated with 1 english word (watch or watchmen variation 2x. There are 3 diferent greek words translated in the bible with 1 single word (watch). The one is Mark Ch 12 is the greek word “Gregorio” meaning awake, aware, vigilant, stay alert. Just to let you know I do go to the source and dig deep.

        4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. (These refer to the 5 in Eph.)
        28 “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.” Now this verse throw another angle into whole matter. and theres only 8 of them. 3 i was calling gifts and 3 you are calling gifts with 2 intruding on the whole study.

        • Hi Mark,

          As a speaker of Hebrew, I must correct you on your use of the word ‘Aramaic’. Aramaic was only used in parts of the Book of Daniel and maybe Ezra. It is closely related to Hebrew, but it is NOT Hebrew. Aramaic was the ‘lingua franca’ of the Land of Israel during Roman Times, but Hebrew would have been the mother tongue of every Jewish Israeli – and is the language of the Old Testament.

          Please also be careful with ‘word studies’. Not all sources of such ‘word studies’ translate correctly.

          For instance, almost no one gets Exodus 3:14 correct.

          So, let me test you:

          What is wrong with the translations of Exodus 3:14?

          And no, use only those sources that you hold highly. I translated it properly because I understand Hebrew. Your sources do not.

          So please, let’s be careful with word studies. They are important, but they are not more important than actually reading the entirety of the Bible.

          Again, Nathan was not claiming that the calling to be a ‘watchman’ was one of the ‘gifts of the spirit’.

          Thank you, Mark.

          Yours in Christ,

          John Little

          • Is ” estrangelo aramaic” a better word. I realize it was from the original hebrew. So what is the language used in the old testament? Whatever the proper name Thanks for the clarification. What are your sources?
            Jesus was accused of blaspheme for saying the same thing as Moses. Tricky. I know in the Hebrew its an unspeakable word (YHWH)
            Elohim answered Moses, “Ehyeh Who Ehyeh.
            Hebrew word related to the name Yahweh

            John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
            28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

            I cant say “whats wrong with it” other than it has no corresponding hebrew english words. So the best translation you can get is not really a translation. (YHWH)
            How did I do?

          • Hi Mark,

            Estrangelo Aramaic?

            No. Hebrew, or in the original – Ivrit (pronounced ee-vreet).

            Aram is the name of the people that we call Syria. The Israelis were not – and are not – Syria. So, they did NOT speak ‘Aramaic’ in the Old Testament.

            They spoke Hebrew – Ivrit. My sources are the Bible itself. Abraham was called a Hebrew – or, Ivri (pronounced ee-vree).

            As for YHWH, archaeologists have discovered the pronunciation key. It wasn’t pronounced Yahweh. It was pronounced Yehovah – as those of us who speak Hebrew correctly pronounce it. I don’t know why people persist is mispronouncing the name of God.

            Those of us who are children of God have the right – even obligation – to speak the proper name of God.

            As for Exodus 3:14, the words that I was referring to were:

            אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה

            Or, eh-yeh ah-sher eh-yeh

            Now, you need to tell me what that really means. Translators say that it means – I Am that I am.

            Is that correct?

            Thank you, Mark.

            Yours in Christ,

            John Little

          • The term ” I am that I am” seems comparable to these versus: Rev 4:8, Rev 1:8
            And now that I searched it out I find it here:


            Rev 4:8 holy, Lord God Almighty, the WAS (ho ēn), and the BEING (ho ōn), and the IS TO COME (ho erchomenos).
            Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, the BEING (ho ōn), and THE WAS (ho ēn), and THE IS TO COME (ho erchomenos), the Almighty (ho pantokrator
            The Lord God Jesus Christ existing outside of time was the God of the old testament. How did I do?

            Sorry but I came up with this phrase a few years back after understanding the Alpha-Omega what I call the “out of time existence” When the Lord said ” I am that I am”
            so “I am” too (my inside joke) beacuse HE was is and always will be. Ephesians 1:4King James Version (KJV)

            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            Bless You Brother

            My turn. Let me test you just because I am so much enjoying the discourse and feedback. I know EXACTLY what this verse means. It will blow your mind. Give it a go please. You first.
            Revelation 12:1
            “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:”

          • Hi Mark,

            The phrase in Exodus 3:14 – usually translated as I Am That I Am – is closest to what you refer to as ‘ho erchomenos’:

            ὁ ἐρχόμενος

            The phrase ‘eh-yeh ah-sher eh-yeh’ (אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה) literally means ‘I will be that I will be’. It was directly pointing to His eventual coming as the Mashiach – or anointed one (aka, Christ).


            By the way, Messiah does NOT mean ‘Annointed One’. It means ‘Savior’. But, either word is a good description of our Lord and Savior.

            It has been more than thirty years since I studied Greek, but it appears to me that Revelation 12:1 was translated correctly.

            Thank you, Mark.

            Yours in Christ,

            John Little

          • Thanks John. I could not correctly translate it it but i get the jist. The Alpha Omega? He was is and will be? So I did ok. By the way I am not an expert as you can see and used the word Aramaic in ignorance. I went and edited my article and a few othet things too because and replaced all the words Aramaic to Hebrew. I desire to communicate the truth of God’s word and will always be open to feedback because I dont claim to know the truth just a little peice of it.

          • Revelation 12:1
            “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (constellation of Virgo) clothed with the sun( sun in Virgo), and the moon under her feet( moon is under the sun) , and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:” (positions of these planets-mercury, mars, venus directly under leo at the time) Illistration here: )
            This verse is a star date of the birth of Christ. The positions of these planets and stars are an exact star date of the birth of Christ. Im not saying its the absolute truth but I can see it that its is logical with biblical refernces to looking for signs in the heavens.
            Psalm 19:1-4King James Version (KJV)

            19 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

            2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

            3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

            4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
            Luke 21:25
            And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

          • Hi Mark,

            Yeah. I’ve seen that interpretation make the rounds.

            I was half expecting this interpretation to pop up. Please let me warn you that this line of reasoning is far from safe.

            Remember that the Book of Revelation is a mixture of allegory and precise fact.

            Is there literally a woman clothed with the sun with a crown of twelve stars?

            Such a woman would normally get arrested.

            So, it’s allegory. But, WHAT allegory?

            Well, the woman clearly gives birth to Jesus, and the only group of people THAT could be is… Israel. We could go on from there, but I think that it is clear what this passage is saying.

            I believe that the interpretation that you have been taught is detrimental to understanding the Book of Revelation. At best it is a distraction. At worst, it is a corruption of Revelation and adds to the Book of Revelation.

            Please understand that the following two verses should ALWAYS make us careful when attempting to interpret the Book of Revelation:

            18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

            19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

            – Revelation 22:18-19


            Please stay clear of ANYTHING that might add or subtract from the Book of Revelation.

            We tangle with the Book of Revelation at our peril.

            Thank you, Mark.

            Yours in Christ,

            John Little

  82. I recently heard of the controversy between Nathan Leal and Ted Broer. Wanting to determine for myself, I listened to the program and was totally shocked at the new age theology Ted Broer was spewing. My heart ached over the fact the Hagmann’s lacked Godly discernment in this and allowed him to do this. I hated to think of how this was going to confuse and mislead so many of their listeners. I do hope by now those who criticized Mr. Leah were convicted and have repented and apologized to him.
    Thank you for taking a stand in this for both you and Mr. Leah are correct in exposing this evil amongst us.

    • Hi Angel,

      Pingbacks are generated when another website using WordPress, publishes a link to a post that was also created using WordPress.

      TrackingMeroz uses WordPress, as do I, and he/she published a link to this article. Therefore, the article received a ‘Pingback’.

      Unfortunately, TrackingMeroz seems to be a pretty bitter guy/gal. I don’t quite know what’s up with him/her. Of course, my impression could be wrong. I do quite a bit of criticism of others, so it’s hypocritical of me to call out TrackingMeroz.

      I hope that explains it all for you, Angel.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  83. Hi John –

    I have been following what happened to Nathan for a while, and am totally shocked that somebody is being treated so bad for calling out false teachings. I pray that the Lord blesses he and his wife for standing up and doing the right thing. Money seems to be an obvious motivator in the HTW conference – I didn’t know it cost people $100 to repent to God – here I did it on my own under the conviction of the word of God and the Holy Spirit for free. But I won’t get into that;

    The main reason I’m commenting is that I may have found where Ted got the whole “10 dimension” teaching from. Someone named Daniel Duval, who has written a book called Higher Dimensions, Parallel Dimensions, and the Spirit Realm. He has a youtube channel also where he goes into this teaching, along with some other things. I do not agree with any of this teaching at all, and Daniel gets into a lot of other non-biblical topics too. I don’t know if DD is the originator of the “God exists in the 10th dimension” thing, but I thought if you could make a financial connection between Ted/Daniel/and or “Three Mikes” it may tie some things together.

    • Hi Roger,

      Yes, there IS a money connection, but getting to the bottom of it would be a distraction from the main point of Omega Shock. I will leave it to others to make all those connections.

      Daniel Duval?


      I’ve heard him before, in connection with the women that he has helped. These women were suffering the effects of Satanic Ritual Abuse, that caused multiple personality disorder. He’s done much good work for these poor women, so I’m sorry to hear that he has been preaching this nonsense.

      I’m not sure that speculating about what ‘dimension’ heaven is in… is heresy, exactly. Since heaven doesn’t exist within our ‘realm’, by definition it is in another ‘dimension’. But, the tenth? The thirteenth? Foolishness.

      I suspect that working with those coming out of Satanism might have caused him to believe some things that aren’t exactly Biblical.

      Thank you, Roger, for that update. I appreciate it.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

    • Hi Toni C,

      Good question. I don’t know. It could be that he’s working on a new direction for his ministry. Or, he’s trying to finish his books.

      Don’t know.

      He DOES have a forum that people post on. You’ll probably find something there.

      Keep us updated on what you find.

      Thank you, Toni.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  84. The Popular Man’s Reward!

    In Damascus, each day a popular man had a different friend tell others what they thought others should hear. Every day the popular man would agree with everything the person was saying to his friends even if the words were the opposite from the day before.

    One day a close friend spoke of how no damage would happen to their great city, Damascus, and it would continue on and on in peace. The popular man agreed.

    The next day an acquaintance spoke of the need for people to repent and turn to God to be saved from the destruction that was coming. Again the popular man agreed.

    The close friend did not like what the acquaintance spoke and complained to the popular man.

    Then the popular man railed daily against the acquaintance. Accusing him and saying all manner of evil against him daily.

    The acquaintance said nothing and just prayed. Yet the popular man kept up the evil railing against him. Still the acquaintance kept silent. Day by day this went on.

    Then the day came when the whole city was destroyed. Some listened to the close friend and died going to hell, for they did not repent. Others listened to the acquaintance and repented, fled and lived.

    What reward will God give that popular man?

    • Hi Rob,

      Thank you for that.

      I asked Doug for the background. I asked EVERYONE. Doug said/wrote nothing. So, I went with what I had. And yes, I asked several times.

      If there was information that could have supported his side of things, I would have given it. Doug gave me nothing. What little that I did get from Steve Quayle wasn’t anything, either.

      What Steve Quayle and David Lankford did was a sin, plain and simple. If they wish to claim that it wasn’t, then I will need to see proof.

      This withholding of evidence is supreme arrogance on the part of Doug.

      I like Doug. I appreciate what he does. But, his position is arrogant. Steve Quayle and David Lankford sinned against their brother, Nathan Leal, and Doug stood by and did nothing.

      And, I am NOT in Nathan Leal’s camp. Period.

      But, I will not stand by, while a brother is viciously attacked – without cause. And until I see evidence, that judgment stands.


      So Doug, give me some evidence or shut up. Jon Robberson, give me some evidence or shut up. Otherwise, you’re being arrogant and accessories to sin.

      Sorry Rob. That hit a raw nerve, and I appreciate the fact that you shared that with me. I’m afraid that stuff like this is going to happen more and more often.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • I’m sorry if I brought you to anger.

        The thing about this matter is that it happened in a public forum. Because the people involved have so much influence on people, and because so many people have a level of trust in them and what they say, everyone involved has an obligation to resolve it in public.

        Whatever the full story is, it’s already affected a lot of people in a negative way, and that’s the worst part of it. I pray this has not caused any person to stumble and fall from Jesus.

        • Hi Rob,

          No. YOU did not bring me to anger. The SITUATION did.

          Furthermore, God does not say that we should not be angry. No, God said that we should not be angry without cause.

          Also, Paul says that those who sin, and are in leadership, should be rebuked publicly – after following a careful process of determining the truth. Nathan Leal did that. I have done that. Everything was done properly, and in order.

          I am dismayed at what our brothers have done. This is a grave sin, and they will be judged by God for it. We have done our part in this.

          Sin must NEVER be concealed by a conspiracy of silence. God says that sin must be exposed for all to see – if the guilty will not repent. I asked for their ‘side of the story’, and in their pride, they refused.

          Stumble and fall?

          No. God will not allow His children to stumble and fall, because the sins of the leadership have been revealed.

          The Bible has NEVER commanded us to conceal the sins of the leadership. THAT is an abomination, and the sin within our churches comes from that abomination.

          I am sick at heart over the sins in our churches. We have allowed evil to take hold in our leadership and in our congregations. That sin has destroyed our country. WE did this, because we shrank from exposing the sins in our churches.

          Thank you, Rob, for giving me an opportunity to explain this properly.

          Yours in Christ,

          John Little

  85. Thank you again John, for making the time and the effort to wade into this muddy water and expose the
    lies, reveal the deceptions and bring the fresh, clean water of truth to the surface for the sheep to drink.

    A couple of observations:

    One, this whole drama would have ended quickly had MK (MM or MW) and Ted just admitted their wrong thinking, listened and applied what Mr. Leal was trying to help them to understand. They did not, thru their rebellion that the bible calls, as the sin of witchcraft. Two, these two men misrepresented and distorted the truth to a bunch of other men. Thus, a private matter thru gossip, slander, mischief and lies became a huge nightmare. Three, the “watchmen” got their feelings hurt thru pride, arrogance, stubbornness and jealousy. Four, instead of behaving like mature men in The Lord they took their bruised egos world-wide. They continue to go on radio shows, Facebook and you-tube every few days berating another man’s reputation and ministry thru slander, division and discord.

    Meanwhile Mr. Leal is quiet, not adding to it nor encouraging or inciting others to act up.

    And what does Jesus think about all this bad behavior on the part of grown men who call themselves Christians? Surely, the greatest harm being done in Jesus’ name is to His little ones, the babes in
    Christ. Some may never come to fully know Jesus Christ as a result of watching this from the sidelines.

    My final comments:

    If any of you men are reading this, MK (MM or MW) and TB, apologize quickly, for you have behaved like disobedient children who didn’t get their own way. DH and JH, SQ, DL, DH, MB, and JR please give it up. You can not afford even one more day of sowing discord among the body. Be the men of GOD, you say you are, and admit you made some wrong decisions based upon faulty information. And those of you, DH and others who have threatened and harassed the Leals with lawsuits, it is way past time to retract your threats. The Word commands Christians not to sue other Christians.

    True sheep will not heed leaders who betray Jesus, and His Word. They hear His voice and they choose to obey The Holy Spirit. However, people will forgive and will follow warriors like King David who humbled himself when he sinned. Especially when the nation is about to be judged by GOD, harshly, for sin.

    Thanks, again John for letting the body pour out their disappointments to you. And thanks for making
    the effort to respond as you have painstakingly done. Lastly, that is an excellent commentary by
    Serena. John, may Jesus Christ bless you and yours for your labors of love in His name.

  86. Nice edits John.
    You removed some posts that you had responded to in the past few days.
    The situation is fluid.
    Is the truth?

  87. Just another update. Rick wiles had David Langford on and asked him about his dream (snake dream). I also see that the Hagmann’s updated their website and deleted contributors like John Little, Josh Peck, and Nathan Leal. You don’t have to post this if you don’t want to. It’s just a sad situation. Thank you for all you do!

    • Hi Toni C,

      I did a search for my articles, and I did find them. I think that the Hagmanns are moving stuff around. So, that might be why some articles aren’t appearing. Having said that, articles probably will disappear. We’ll see.

      I’m afraid that Rick Wiles grieves me greatly. His anger, bitterness and pride get in the way of his message. I’ve tried to reason with him, to no avail.

      Thank you, Toni, for that update. As you said, very sad.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • My sister and her dear freind invited me to the “Watchmen Conference” as a gift from my sisters dear freind:and know mine, and it was an invitation to fellowship. I cannot deny that invitation. It is sacred and dear to me because of the people directly concerning me. Yes that is a perfect definition of VANITY. But I myself wish for EVERYTHING other than my own vanity. Yet, I am a man of emotion and deep loyalty to God, family, and the the Whole BODY of Christ. Im sorry to say in that exact order whether right or wrong. I am attending the “:Watchmmen Conference” because its not being sold as a religous or righteous authuratarianism, but simply radio personalities whom I do admire that are in the christian faith getting together to fellowship. There is certainenly no reason why I should NOT attend. On the contrary the whole fiasco with the subject on this comment section is more of a reason I will attend. Praise be to God and give hime the glory in Jesus Christ AMEN!

  88. Hello John,

    I just listened to this audio by Nathan today, (from Feb.12th) and I wanted to be sure you knew about it because he and his wife, Donna, spoke very kindly about your effort in putting forth this article. The first part of the first hour is about these events.

    God Bless.

  89. John.

    You say: “Thank you, Angel. I did hear that and was greatly moved by their appreciation. Nathan and Donna are really wonderful. – JL”

    I am not a follower of Nathan parse’ but it is obvious to me that Nathan and Donna’s general demeanor in the way they have handled this incident stands in stark contrast to others involved.

    Rarely does the internet give us such an imposing opportunity to really inspect the “Fruits” of people who possess the potential to exert extraordinary influence over our lives. This incident has. I would exhort all to “Please Pay Attention”,

    The old adage that states “if you give a person enough rope they will hang themselves” is proven again to be true as we are indeed condemned or justified by the words of our own mouths (Matthew 12:37). Unfortunately, Ecclesiastes 5:3b manifests painfully true as well.

    John, I appreciate and commend you for your support of the Leal’s in this situation and look forward to thanking you personally at homecoming. Good job!


  90. John, you are continuing to explode a problem that is bigger than you, I have read, listened to all the back and forth, talked directly with people involved and you speak out of line.
    Please pray, I don’t care that you delete this but please pray and ask forgiveness for your sin in this. Both Nathan and Ted were wrong but there is much more then that.

    Please don’t help the devil to win!

    Your sister in Christ

    • Hi Terry Smith,

      I would have gladly kept silent, if the parties involved had provided evidence implicating Nathan in wrongdoing. They did not.

      Furthermore, I knew that engaging in the course of action, would cause harm to myself and my ministry. But, we are called to righteousness and justice, and to allow a brother in Christ to be slandered in such a way, without saying anything… well, that would not be the way of Christ.

      What the parties involved DID DO was engage in slander and verbal attack. Legal threats were made. Sins were committed.

      I gave all parties weeks to provide the material that I needed, to explain why Steve Quayle and David Lankford spent three hours reviling Nathan Leal for withdrawing his participation from the conference.

      They gave me nothing.

      There was NOTHING that Nathan Leal did that warranted the enormous attack leveled against him. Steve and David sinned against their brother, and the wrath of God will be against them, if they do not repent and ask Nathan to forgive them.

      As for Three Mikes, he has proven himself to be a charlatan and a man of questionable intent.

      The need for repentance lies with others. The Devil wins when the Church acts out of pride and covers up corruption.

      Why do you think that the church in America suffers from so much trouble?

      Because sins and corruption were hidden.


      What you are asking me to do is a sin, Terry. You are asking me to cover up sins and allow a brother in Christ to be unjustly attacked. You are not right with God in this, Terry.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  91. So apparently Pastor Lankford spoke about being one Supreme Court Justice away from the constitution being utterly destroyed. This was said the night before Justice Scalia was found dead. If Pastor Lankford was so wrong and under judgement why would God use him in such a magnificent way? (Albeit it was bad news)

    • Hi Sean H.,

      Just because David Lankford sinned against Nathan… It doesn’t mean that God is not using David for His own work.

      I believe that brother Lankford was sincere in his position – sincerely wrong. I’ve been there before, so I know how that works.

      So, I’m sure that God will continue to use David, but I pray that God will gently show our brother that attacking another good brother like Nathan, in the way that he did, for the reason that he did it… was wrong.

      And, I will continue to rejoice in any blessing that brother David provides to us, through his preaching.

      Thank you, Sean, for pointing that out.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  92. Hey John,

    I posted previously on this topic and told you I was going to go to the Hear The Watchmen conference and I just got back yesterday evening. I thought I would let you know how it went. It really was amazing. I had a heavy heart about going after hearing all that transpired, but I’m very glad I went. I didn’t meet all of the speakers, but the ones I did, I felt I had known them before I ever saw them in person. Some I ran into in the elevator and began a conversation (Coach Daubenmire & Sheila Zillensky), one in the coffee shop (Joe Hagmann), but most of the ones I met were in the conference room. I can tell you that God used Michael Boldea to bring a powerful word. He wept as he was preaching. God gave him the word right before he got up to the podium and he delivered it!! He was one that I spoke with that wasn’t as personable, but everyone has different personalities. I wanted to let him know I was touched by his message so I went up to him and told him, and I could tell by the shrugging of his shoulders and his face gestures I had said the wrong thing. Then he said, “It’s all there in the Word.” I shook his hand and walked away feeling pretty stupid for saying anything. The next day I heard him engaging with a lady in the lobby. I felt embarrassed for her, but as I said, everyone has their own personalities. Pastor Lankford preached Sunday and the Holy Ghost was in the house!!!

    It was so refreshing to hear from God and to worship with like-minded people. I talked with people from all over the United States. We truly came together as one.

    The next conference will be in Knoxville, TN, in September.

    I still pray for restoration among the Watchmen.


    • Hi Bobbie Griffin,

      THAT is WONDERFUL to hear. Praise God. I am very glad that this went so well, and I hope that this continues.

      Thank you for reporting back to all of us on your experience, Bobbie. I will certainly be directing everyone to your comment, if anyone has a question about how the conference went.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  93. John,

    I’m not sure you will want to post this, especially since this is an older article, but I’ve noticed something that has occurred with several of the people involved in the events spoken of here:

    * Immediately after Nathan made public that he wasn’t going to attend the conference, Doug Hagmann’s wife was rushed to the Emergency Room for a possible heart attack. It wasn’t, but she was ill for awhile and I know there was great concern for her.

    * Approximately one month ago, Rick Wiles announced that his wife, Susan was in the hospital with a kidney stone and sepsis…very ill. She is already ill with an unusual health issue.

    * A few weeks ago, Dave Hodges became very ill and found out he had developed diabetes, along with some other health issues. He apparently is feeling better as of last week.

    * Last week around June 16th, Ted Broer’s son was rushed to the hospital with a heart ailment- I think it was endo- or peri-carditis, both of which can be fatal. As far as I know he’s still hospitalized.

    I don’t know if this is the enemy, or if it’s God’s hand allowing these problems, but I don’t think all these serious problems could be a coincidence.

    Steve and David have not said they have suffered any serious health problems, but I will be praying for their health and that of their family.

    God Bless.

    • Hi Angel,

      Thank you for that.

      I have recently seen something happen recently to someone who was engaged in attacks against our church – and against my wife and myself. My wife remarked that this person needs to stop doing that, or something will happen to him.

      And then, something did.

      Of course, not every health problem is a rebuke from God. But, I believe that you are right that such things are not merely coincidence. It should act as a potent reminder to treat our brothers and sisters carefully, so that we would not sin against them and suffer rebuke from God.

      My hope is that all those who treated Nathan and Donna unjustly will repent of their sin against their brother and sister – for their own sake.

      Thank you, Angel. Your comments are a great contribution.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  94. Addendum to my above comment:

    Rick wasn’t directly involved, but he has made it clear that he was not supporting Nathan. He’s interviewed Steve and David more than once, but has not invited Nathan onto his show since the conference blew up.

  95. I live about 50 mi. from Nathan Leal,I enjoy both his and your writings. I’m reading my Bible more and fighting an ongoing battle of Spiritual Apathy. Keep up the great work,John!

    From frigid N. Idaho


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